Newsletter #113 | May 2023

Tue May 09, 2023 4:10 pm

Read our latest newsletter and learn more about:

- L009 series - the perfect RB2011 upgrade;
- New Chateau LTE6 and LTE6 ax home/office devices;
- New #MikroTips and tricks
- Your MikroTik setup submissions
- CCR2004/CSS326-powered gaming festival

https://mt.lv/news113

^

113_soctikliem.jpg

dadaniel · Tue May 09, 2023 4:26 pm

Why are you promoting container support on devices with as little as 512MB RAM? Memory is so cheap today!

Tue May 09, 2023 4:43 pm

There are all kinds of containers, it's not all memory intensive software. There are tiny tools you can use as well.
L009 is our low cost device. Adding RAM will make it not so cheap anymore. We have other products with more RAM

msatter · Tue May 09, 2023 4:44 pm

Marketing seems to go of the rails.

anav · Tue May 09, 2023 7:08 pm

I think the L009 is a perfect fit for homeowners that need more then the hex and not as much as the 5009, basically anyone with a 1 gig connection and with room to grow to a 2.5 gig connection. Makes sense to me, almost as much sense as Zerotrust Cloudflare tunnel as an options package for all devices.
Especially because the no container bit...................

As for the 2.4ghz wifi only............ Mixed reaction. Good enough to support IOT devices and guest wifi, but home users want 5ghz for their own traffic etc...
But there are plenty of other vendor APs out there to consider for this as well

volkirik · Tue May 09, 2023 7:20 pm

no mention of ipv6 fasttracking.

cpu powers are not enough to utilize 1gige in standard tracking.

pe1chl · Tue May 09, 2023 7:25 pm

It says "2011... container support: no". But well, 2011 supported MetaROUTER.

pekr · Tue May 09, 2023 7:40 pm

It does not have 5GHz wireless?

BrianHiggins · Tue May 09, 2023 7:42 pm

Any plans for a future dual band version of the L009? 2.4 only makes this of limited value, with 5 GHz it would be a quite attractive offering.

Matta · Tue May 09, 2023 8:01 pm

According to block diagram shown in YouTube video, Eth2-Eth8 and SFP1 - they all share one 2.5Gb/s link to chipset ?
I'm aware that corners needed to be cut, but isn't that a bit too extreme ?

gigabyte091 · Tue May 09, 2023 8:15 pm

Can't find datasheet but i don't think so, that chip is 11 port ethernet switch chip.

Matta · Tue May 09, 2023 8:53 pm

gigabyte091 · Tue May 09, 2023 9:20 pm

Sorry, I misunderstood you.

pe1chl · Tue May 09, 2023 9:30 pm

That is not so bad, right? It is sufficient for typical home-router use where internet is on ether1 and home devices are on the other ports.
Ok, it is not optimal for use of SFP1. It would preferably be reconfigurable so that SFP1 is on the direct connection to the SoC and ether1-ether8 on the second connection.
But it is not dramatic, for typical use where most traffic is download it should still be able to do something with the 2.5Gbps, probably limited by CPU anyway.

bpwl · Tue May 09, 2023 9:57 pm

Marketing seems to go of the rails.

it must be a stressful time for marketing, not an easy task. The implementations and applications are numerous. Everyone is looking for their optimal mix of options.

Compare it to the hAP ax3, if you have more than 25 wifi devices only connecting to your LAN via dedicated AP's, using RADIUS authentication. And see my dilemma. (e.g. L6 needed)
Still L009UiGS-RM ... very nice!

https://mikrotik.com/product/rb5009_out , not in the newsletter, but even more impressive.
All 5009 should have L6, when compared to hAP ax3 (but L6 there was a marketing glitch, no?)

pe1chl · Tue May 09, 2023 10:04 pm

Well, at the moment I am more bothered by the bug in VLAN assignment via RADIUS even for a single client...

bpwl · Tue May 09, 2023 10:27 pm

VLAN assignment via RADIUS, on WLAN or wifi(wave2) interfaces? Seems quite different in what I read on this.
WLAN driver based versus bridge setting based in wifiwave2/AX ????? Not checked, no hardware. But CAPSMAN (wifiwave2) suggests things like that.

pe1chl · Tue May 09, 2023 10:41 pm

I optimized my WiFi by using only a single SSID and using VLAN assignment via RADIUS (user-manager) to get each client on the correct VLAN. This is on classic Wireless, not wifiwave2. It turns out it does not work correctly: the client receives directed traffic and broadcasts, but not multicasts from that assigned VLAN.
See viewtopic.php?t=195841

rb9999 · Tue May 09, 2023 11:23 pm

Do you think 128MB of NAND is really enough? I know we can attach a USB stick but that worries me as it's protruding out of the front panel and one might either pull it out or even break the usb port...

elbob2002 · Wed May 10, 2023 12:22 am

There are all kinds of containers, it's not all memory intensive software. There are tiny tools you can use as well.
L009 is our low cost device. Adding RAM will make it not so cheap anymore. We have other products with more RAM

RB3011 has 1GB of RAM. Other than the colour it seems the L009UiGS-RM is more a replacement for the RB3011 rather than the RB2011.

sinisa · Wed May 10, 2023 1:15 am

Read our latest newsletter and learn more about:

- L009 series - the perfect RB2011 upgrade;

Without 5&6 GHz? In y. 2023? Why bother at all?
Sorry Mikrotik, but I see no use for this.

You have wasted time that you could have spent on fixing problems with existing gear :(

anav · Wed May 10, 2023 3:03 am

Its only there if you need some basic wifi, dont get your knickers in a twist, if you want wifi look at the AX series, if you want routing this is good value.

marsbeetle · Wed May 10, 2023 8:12 am

Marketing L009 for use with HomeAssistant - not sure how that is possible with only 512 memory?!

mkx · Wed May 10, 2023 8:49 am

Other than the colour it seems the L009UiGS-RM is more a replacement for the RB3011 rather than the RB2011.

Nah. One has to consider also advancement in technology overall. RB3011 was state-of-art router for SOHO when introduced. L009 isn't, it is more an entry-level device for today's standards.

But I concur, it does seem odd device. E.g. they market it as rack-mountable device (4 devices in 1U rack space) ... but who would want to mount WiFi device inside a rack (which many times makes a pretty good Faraday cage)? And why would somebody want to place 4 2.4GHz APs at the same spot?
If it's intended to be mounted side by side with RB5009, then this makes some sense, but not whole lot of it ... number of wired ports is a bit odd, interconnection between them is odd (well, one could use eth1 only as PoE in then) and again ,why would somebody want to put wireless device inside a rack?

If we're talking about size format: an 8-port Gbps switch with 2 SFP+ ports for uplink/daisy-chain, all ports connected directly to a decent switch chip, and running ROS (and SwOS if possible) would make a much better companion to RB5009.

olivier2831 · Wed May 10, 2023 8:53 am

- L009 series - the perfect RB2011 upgrade;

One interesting thing is that L009 has a 2.5Gb/s capable SFP slot (not an SFP+).
What kind of SFP modules can take advantage of it ?
What about heat with such 2.5 Gb/s SFP modules ?

Buckeye · Wed May 10, 2023 8:56 am

I think the L009 is a perfect fit for homeowners that need more then the hex and not as much as the 5009, basically anyone with a 1 gig connection and with room to grow to a 2.5 gig connection.

That's what my first impression was, until I looked at the CPU specs. A dual core 800Mhz Arm processor, with possibly better I/O than the one in the hAP ax lite. How usefull will an SFP capable of 2.5Gb be to most home users? Perhaps if they have FTTH and are allowed to bypass the ISP router. But don't most ISP with FTTH still have copper handoff? I think for most home users the hap ax 2 or hap ax 3 (if 2.5 Gb is needed) would be a better fit.

It will be interesting to see what simultaneous bidirectional iperf through the ether1 to ether2 will be compared to hex (should be better), hap ac 2 (?), hap ax lite, hap ax 2, hap ax 3.

Things in favor of the L009: Console, more ethernet ports (in case no other vlan-aware switches are available). The IPQ-5018 firewall and ipsec results are about identical to the hap ax lite (IPQ-5010)
Things in favor of the hAP ax 2: more RAM, better CPU, lower price (known ipsec and firewall performance, the IPQ-6010 is much better for both than the IPQ-5018 in the L009 or the IPQ-5010 in the hap ax lite)

Neither the hap ax lite or the L009 publish ipsec results, so assume they aren't worth publicizing.

For a home router, the hap ax 2 still seems to be a the sweet spot (assuming you have other access points, usually the router location isn't the best place for an access point anyway). If you look at the performance numbers, the hap ax 3 isn't much different than the hap ax 2 (surprising, since the CPU on the hap ax 3 isn't throttled down, and it has a 2.5 Gb port too). And wifi isn't as good on either as a dedicated access point.

I think that either the L009 or the hap ax 2 are more at home in a man cave than in the living room.

Rox169 · Wed May 10, 2023 9:42 am

L009 is smart home switch with posibility to manage thorough 2,4Ghz nothing more.

Buckeye · Wed May 10, 2023 9:57 am

L009 is smart home switch with posibility to manage thorough 2,4Ghz nothing more.

I would say it is a good competitor of the EdgeRouter 10x (which is a MediaTek MT7621 with an RTL8367 for the second set of 5 ethernet ports). Both have console ports, 512 MB RAM (but the ER-10X has 512 MB flash, not 128MB) and about the same cpu performance. But it isn't a competitor to the ER-12 like the RB5009 is. For pure L2 switching, the L009 would be better than the ER-10X (since 8 ports are on one switch, and the mac table is probably larger on the Marvel switch and it probably also supports true jumbo frames (not limited to 2KB like the MediaTek switch ASIC in the MT7621 SoC has) But the L009 has one dedicated router port (ether1), and has an SFP (and only 9 total ports).

Wed May 10, 2023 10:35 am

- L009 series - the perfect RB2011 upgrade;
One interesting thing is that L009 has a 2.5Gb/s capable SFP slot (not an SFP+).
What kind of SFP modules can take advantage of it ?
What about heat with such 2.5 Gb/s SFP modules ?

MT support told me that all their 10G SFP+ modules will work if forced in 2,5G mode. With exception of S+RJ10 as that requires 10G internal link.
About heat, i would assume it is same as in RB5009, and that one has dedicated 10G SFP+ port. So as L009 comes in the same case cooling should not be issue at all

Wed May 10, 2023 10:39 am

https://mikrotik.com/product/rb5009_out , not in the newsletter, but even more impressive.
All 5009 should have L6, when compared to hAP ax3 (but L6 there was a marketing glitch, no?)

That one was in our previous newsletter

https://box.mikrotik.com/f/dda43ce0a0f94f4c84c3/?dl=1

Wed May 10, 2023 10:43 am

Without 5&6 GHz? In y. 2023? Why bother at all?
Sorry Mikrotik, but I see no use for this.

A lot of people asking about the wireless part. This device is a drop-in replacement for our wildly popular RB2011 2GHz AP. It is still (yes, today) one of our best selling devices. There are plenty of use cases for a good RouterOS powered ethernet router with a 2GHz AX WiFi as a bonus on top.

This is not a "new top of the line wireless AP". For that we have hAP and Chateau and other series of devices.

Wed May 10, 2023 10:46 am

L009 is smart home switch with posibility to manage thorough 2,4Ghz nothing more.

That is exatly one of the usecases im looking forward to use it - cheap way to get more ports ir remote setups. and with 4-in-1U, it is also possible to expand it even more. Usually in the boxes im working in are limited to 4-6U, and just adding 24 port dedicated switch when i'm only few ports short is way to expensive. This way i can add 7, then 7 more and then 7 more and 7 more and still use only the same 1U. at that point i would probably install 24 port 1U switch as single device for easier managment and power usage, but non the less.

Znevna · Wed May 10, 2023 10:52 am

At least with L009 we won't see many questions like "Why do I only get 100Mbps on half my ports?? Is this device broken??" etc

olivier2831 · Wed May 10, 2023 11:20 am

MT support told me that all their 10G SFP+ modules will work if forced in 2,5G mode. With exception of S+RJ10 as that requires 10G internal link.
About heat, i would assume it is same as in RB5009, and that one has dedicated 10G SFP+ port. So as L009 comes in the same case cooling should not be issue at all

Thanks for sharing this here.

bpwl · Wed May 10, 2023 12:16 pm

https://mikrotik.com/product/rb5009_out , not in the newsletter, but even more impressive.
All 5009 should have L6, when compared to hAP ax3 (but L6 there was a marketing glitch, no?)
That one was in our previous newsletter :)
https://box.mikrotik.com/f/dda43ce0a0f94f4c84c3/?dl=1

Ooops , missed that newsletter completely. Probably overlooked based on title ...

Klembord-2.jpg

MikroTik Newsletter February 2022 (#110), no 112 in mailbox (spam filtered ?
All discussions in forum about cAP-ax only ? Didn't look further.

BrianHiggins · Wed May 10, 2023 5:54 pm

This is not a "new top of the line wireless AP". For that we have hAP and Chateau and other series of devices.

Chateau AFAIK is only available with LTE (unnecessary cost for our use case), and has 5 ethernet ports. All models in the hAP line only have 4 or 5 ethernet ports. Once you plug in the uplink to the ISP WAN side you're only left with 3 or 4 LAN ports for the customer network. While that is sufficient for 90% of use cases, but frequently enough it isn't, and most of those situations the customer usually only needs 1-2 additional ethernet ports, but they also demand dual band wifi.

A potential L009AC model could be priced to be the perfect fit in between a hAP AC2 or AC3 and the RB4011iGS+5HacQ2HnD-IN for someone who needs the performance of the AC2/3 but needs more ethernet ports, without stepping all the way up to the 4011 price. And a future L009AX could do the same thing for the AX2 and AX3 line as a step up before going to a 5009 (which you're then dealing with dedicated APs, so really more expensive to deploy)

In dual band setup, I would stock the L009AC (and down the road when wave2 is more mature a L009AX), but I won't be selling any single band L009 routers.

Buckeye · Wed May 10, 2023 10:16 pm

- L009 series - the perfect RB2011 upgrade;

First, thanks for getting the documentation links updated with block diagram, performance test, etc.

Can someone be tasked with updating the Switch Chip Features Introduction documentation to include the 88E6190 switch ASIC?

Maybe all that is required is to add it to one of the existing columns, the way the MT7531 was added to the MT7621 column, e.g. perhaps the 88E66191X (but only if it has the same features, I don't know).

While they are at it, can one more row be added to the table; a row that shows the Full ethernet MTU that the chip supports. That info is now in another area MTU in RouterOS, but since this limit is often imposed by the switch ASIC, having it in the Switch Chip Features table would make finding the info easier (after looking at the block diagram to determine the switch ASIC involved).

jrypacek · Thu May 11, 2023 12:03 am

I like the L009UiGS-RM, but the performance does not look so good. Is routing (with firewall) really 10x slower than RB5009?

The performance (same metric) is just a little bit higher than RB2011 and also much worse than RB3011, but I guess it's because ROS 7 has lower performance and performance tables of older devices are not up to date, right?

FezzFest · Thu May 11, 2023 3:54 am

This device is underpowered (it has the same CPU as the hAP ax lite, which is marginally faster than the original 600MHz single-core mipsbe CPU in RB2011) and it's not a drop-in replacement for the RB2011 as it is missing 2 ethernet ports. Still, it looks cool and it supports 48V (which the RB2011 did not). Let's hope they manage to squeeze a little more performance out of this device with further RouterOS upgrades to make it a success.

Thu May 11, 2023 5:16 am

i think marketing is backfiring on L009 ,some of us (me included) at first expected to see it as a worthy representative of 2011-3011-4011-5009 Latvian Muscle legendary Router Family when it is far from it

We already have the rb4011 and rb5009

This Red Device first appeals to nostalgia then appeals to be more or less direct replacement of rb2011 (maybe 2011 will be discontinued soon) with some updates

and this is understandable because rb2011 still find buyers, so there is demand for this kind of product and this is the answer

Thu May 11, 2023 10:24 am

You are right, v7 and v6 tests can't be compared. We will update hEX and a few others. L009 is certainly not slower.

Thu May 11, 2023 10:25 am

at first expected to see it as a worthy representative of 2011-3011-4011-5009 Latvian Muscle legendary Router Family when it is far from it
We already have the rb4011 and rb5009

Yes, like you say, we already have RB4011 and RB5009. This is at the other end of the line up (the LOW COST model in similar form factor).

jrypacek · Thu May 11, 2023 4:01 pm

Thanks Normis, it would be very helpful to state which version was used for testing so we can compare and pick the right one.

BrianHiggins · Thu May 11, 2023 5:50 pm

at first expected to see it as a worthy representative of 2011-3011-4011-5009 Latvian Muscle legendary Router Family when it is far from it
We already have the rb4011 and rb5009
Yes, like you say, we already have RB4011 and RB5009. This is at the other end of the line up (the LOW COST model in similar form factor).

except this isn't that... it's more expensive than both the hAP AC2 and hAP AC3 which is what it really competes with in performance, but has half the wireless interfaces of those devices. If it was dual band then the price premium would be fully justified for the AX and additional ethernet ports. Make a dual band version, even if you need to charge another $10-15 for it, and most of the critics will be silent.

Buckeye · Thu May 11, 2023 11:37 pm

Yes, like you say, we already have RB4011 and RB5009. This is at the other end of the line up (the LOW COST model in similar form factor).
except this isn't that... it's more expensive than both the hAP AC2 and hAP AC3 which is what it really competes with in performance.

@normis didn't claim it was trying to compete with the "consumer" line. I am sure the case on the L009 is much more expensive to make than the hap cases.

My take is these are aimed at lab situations, and for that use case, they may make sense. In an open desktop rack, the wifi could even work. And they do sell a version without any wifi.

The addition of a real serial console makes more sense in a lab than a home in the living room.

In a lab situation, performance usually isn't the primary factor.

These would good for training/learning with real hardware, which is hard to learn with something like GNS3 or EVE-NG. In those simulated routers, cables are always good, and you don't get the experience of following a cable through a spaghetti wiring job, things you need to learn because you will encounter them in the wild.

Thu May 11, 2023 11:42 pm

.. and you don't get the experience of following a cable through a spaghetti wiring job, things you need to learn because you will encounter them in the wild.

Serious ? Not all racks are nicely wired with cable ducts etc ?
:lol:

BrianHiggins · Fri May 12, 2023 5:44 am

@normis didn't claim it was trying to compete with the "consumer" line. I am sure the case on the L009 is much more expensive to make than the hap cases.

My take is these are aimed at lab situations, and for that use case, they may make sense. In an open desktop rack, the wifi could even work. And they do sell a version without any wifi.

The addition of a real serial console makes more sense in a lab than a home in the living room.

In a lab situation, performance usually isn't the primary factor.

These would good for training/learning with real hardware, which is hard to learn with something like GNS3 or EVE-NG. In those simulated routers, cables are always good, and you don't get the experience of following a cable through a spaghetti wiring job, things you need to learn because you will encounter them in the wild.

correct he didn't, but the truth is they really do since the product case doesn't dictate the use case as much as the price and the performance and the features do. I think there's definitely a gap transitioning from the standard hAP "Consumer" routers and the 4011/5009 "Professional" routers. That gap I would call the "Business Class" or "SOHO" devices.

Lets say there's a flower shop that has 2 computers, 2 wired IP security cameras, a wired network printer, and a wired credit card terminal by their POS terminal. That's 6 wired connections, a very modest but also extremely common size of small business found commonly all over this country. None of hAP line is going to work without also buying a swtich, and we can all agree that a 4011 is definitely both overkill and over priced for what they need, and the 5009 is even more so. A L009 would fill that need very nicely, but now you're also limiting them to not have 5GHz wifi. The device now becomes a compromise between the ports you need and the wifi you might need, when instead it could so easily be, and should be, the obvious and easy choice that provides exactly what you need...

Maybe I'm wrong, but I expect this use case is likely at least 20 times more common than those that are worried about squeezing 4 L009 routers into a 1U rack space, and anyone who is putting 4 of them in a 1U rack probably isn't even buying the wireless version, so I really just don't get what the real world use case is for the wireless version without it being dual band. For what it's worth, this was also the market segment that Netgear once built their 'empire' on with their Prosafe products, a step above regular consumer but a step below actual commercial focused hardware, focused on the "SOHO" market (but don't ask me what happened to them since then as I haven't touched their products in more than a decade)

Buckeye · Fri May 12, 2023 7:33 am

I really just don't get what the real world use case is for the wireless version without it being dual band.

I agree with you.

Hopefully MikroTik had a good reason for making this config. @normis said that the RB2011 was still a best seller, so there are still places that cost is a primary factor. Victors said that 100 Mb is still a good seller in some areas too.

If the base is really solid Aluminum, the router should do well in high ambient temperature areas, especially since the processor is low power. Probably the switch ASIC generates more heat than the CPU.

But I will be surprised if the L009 maintains its popularity for eleven years like the RB2011 has.

Fri May 12, 2023 8:03 am

Yes, we are in Latvia, where you get either 1Gbit fiber or 5G with over 100Mbit basically anywhere except the forests. We often forget, that not all of the world is the same. This is why when we look at top sellers, there are mostly 100Mbit devices and low cost devices. This forum is for professionals, enthusiasts. I also love dual band AX and newest tech, but at the end of the day, most of the people outside the forum still happily use 2GHz and their primary concerns are cost/size/familiar form factor etc.

pe1chl · Fri May 12, 2023 11:08 am

The issue is not only "internet speed". When I do a scan on an indoor router here, I see about 100 APs on 2 GHz (and I only have 1-6-11 in my scanlist so there probably are more), and only 15 on 5 GHz. Almost any ISP provides a dual-band router these days, but of course the shielding is a lot more on 5 GHz so the range is less and there are less competing APs in range. So having 5 GHz is really necessary when you want to achieve some throughput. 2 GHz still required for IoT, so only-5 does not cut it either.

Also, several years ago we have argued about supporting VDSL on MikroTik routers (via an SFP) and it never happened, apparently "because everyone has fiber or will soon have it".
Well, I STILL am on a VDSL line! In the meantime it has been upgraded to VVDSL2 profile 35b with 180/30 Mbps, but still VDSL and no fiber available here.
For many years we have been told "it will be deployed soon, probably next year" but all the time there is some reason to postpone it (you can probably guess the reasons used the past 3 years).
And this is in the Netherlands, a densely populated country in western Europe, not in some poor country in the middle of nowhere. I think in Germany it is largely the same.
So indeed, the world is different from what you see locally.

Fri May 12, 2023 11:11 am

I see maybe 3 other APs in my apartment. It does depend on the country, on where you are (private homes will see even less interference, compared to small apartments in densely packed buildings).

(We had DSL in previous generation of population

I remember DSL 20 years ago, but younger people have no idea what it is)

pe1chl · Fri May 12, 2023 11:47 am

Fiber is a commercial operation here. The places where it was deployed early were subsidized or at least guaranteed by some authority like a municipality or a housing agency.
In most places, there is a cold calculation of "what will it cost to deploy it, how many customers will we get, and what will they bring in". I know in some other countries the state has done such subsidizing (or at least a guarantee to the fiber company that they will recoup their costs), but here it does not happen.

In my quarters, years ago a petition was held where everyone who wanted to have fiber could sign up, and when some percentage of total households would sign up it would be deployed soon. But at that time there already was DSL and cable internet, and just like you indicate "This forum is for professionals, enthusiasts", such petitions are set up by enthusiasts who think that everyone wants fiber internet. In reality, it is not true. Most people want (cheap) internet but they really cannot be bothered if it is over DSL or cable or fiber, as long as it sort of works. In fact, when they are offered another solution that is slightly more expensive than what they have, they are likely to reject it.

BrianHiggins · Fri May 12, 2023 7:54 pm

I see maybe 3 other APs in my apartment. It does depend on the country, on where you are (private homes will see even less interference, compared to small apartments in densely packed buildings).

(We had DSL in previous generation of population :D I remember DSL 20 years ago, but younger people have no idea what it is)

I have many individual apartment complex buildings that have 700-900+ different hAP AC Lite or AC2 routers installed in them, it's one per apartment. The high-density residential market simply cannot operate without 5GHz support.

Here are two wireless scans just both from the same device a few minutes ago. This device is in a building that we have nearly 700 other devices, note that even though we have supply service to 75% of the tenants inside this building, the majority of the 2.4GHz APs you see are spectrum, because they turn up their xmit strength to the max, where we actually turn the radios DOWN as to reduce interference and noise.

dense2.4.png

On the otherhand, this same device scanned just moments later, can see only 3 other devices on 5GHz.

dense5g.png

bpwl · Fri May 12, 2023 8:57 pm

Hope someone is sending out the "40mbit intolerant bit", with all those 40MHz wide channels (Ce) . 28dBm is indeed possible for FCC (US), not for ETSI (EU).
All together in channel 1 and 6 (40 mbit wide) , no one in channel 11 ?
How does one count/deal the weak (<-86dBm) signal? The noise floor is very low (-116dBm) so most still have a reasonable interface rate.
"noise-floor-threshold" disappeared from the possible wifi settings, but we still have "adaptive-noise-immunity" for some in WLAN driver

We all know the limitations of the 2.4GHz band. But all newly added IOT devces in my house all demand 2.4GHz.
Adding a 5GHz AP in the room with the client devices, is mostly the way to extend this overall wifi exerience.

PS: Air-time is the important limitation, not the number of devices. Turning down TX power may reduce the interface rate, and increase the consumed air-time.
MT does not broadcast it's QBSS

BrianHiggins · Fri May 12, 2023 9:24 pm

Hope someone is sending out the "40mbit intolerant bit", with all those 40MHz wide channels (Ce) . 28dBm is indeed possible for FCC (US), not for ETSI (EU).
All together in channel 1 and 6 (40 mbit wide) , no one in channel 11 ?
How does one count/deal the weak (<-86dBm) signal? The noise floor is very low (-116dBm) so most still have a reasonable interface rate.
"noise-floor-threshold" disappeared from the possible wifi settings, but we still have "adaptive-noise-immunity" for some in WLAN driver

We all know the limitations of the 2.4GHz band. But all newly added IOT devces in my house all demand 2.4GHz.
Adding a 5GHz AP in the room with the client devices, is mostly the way to extend this overall wifi exerience.

PS: Air-time is the important limitation, not the number of devices. Turning down TX power may reduce the interface rate, and increase the consumed air-time.
MT does not broadcast it's QBSS

Since we don't have control where the devices are placed in the building by the property owner / manager other than "in the unit", and devices are often swapped around and reassigned as people move in or out, the only real option is to leave frequency and extension channel selection in auto, though they certainly seems to prefer ch1. I do wish it would automatically adjust the channel selection every so often.

	  
/interface wireless {
	set wlan1 mode=ap-bridge band=2ghz-g/n disabled=no wireless-protocol=802.11 distance=indoors installation=indoor 
	set wlan1 frequency=auto scan-list=2412,2437,2762 country="united states3" rate-set=configured supported-rates-b="" basic-rates-b=""
	set wlan1 wmm-support=enabled
	set wlan1 channel-width=20/40mhz-XX 
	set wlan1 antenna-gain=$antennagain2ghz
}

pe1chl · Fri May 12, 2023 11:09 pm

Well, when you use 40 MHz channel width you effectively have only one channel anyway, so it does not matter if it always uses channel 1...
IMHO the max width on 2 GHz is 20 MHz, which gives you 3 channels.

bratislav · Mon May 15, 2023 2:04 pm

Without 5&6 GHz? In y. 2023? Why bother at all?
Sorry Mikrotik, but I see no use for this.

A lot of people asking about the wireless part. This device is a drop-in replacement for our wildly popular RB2011 2GHz AP. It is still (yes, today) one of our best selling devices. There are plenty of use cases for a good RouterOS powered ethernet router with a 2GHz AX WiFi as a bonus on top.

This is not a "new top of the line wireless AP". For that we have hAP and Chateau and other series of devices.

I am not sure sure how attractive this device will be when compared with hAP ax2 for example which is cheaper, has twice the CPU power and much faster ethernet switch and 5Ghz ax wifi, or hAP ax3 that is 4 times as fast and only slightly more expensive and you can always add a coupe of inexpensive switches if you need more Ethernet ports and have way faster network overall.
People used to buy RB2011UiAS-2HnD-IN because they are used to it and used to have same configs on all devices for years, and never because they needed RACK mount option (which 2011 doesn't have at all, not that 4 slow wifi routers in a RACK makes much sense to me anyways), and as for drop in replacement this device isn't because it only supports ROS 7 and WifiWave2 which are not drop in replaceable for people not upgrading their ROS which are most of 2011 users...

troffasky · Mon May 15, 2023 3:13 pm

When I saw in the newsletter that this was single band, I *knew* that was what would attract the most comment in this thread :-)
5GHz does seem like an omission to me, but despite all the comment, I do wonder what practical difference it would make to the use of the product - it seems to me at this point that lack of 5G will cost more sales due to perception of an issue, than any actual issue.

pe1chl · Mon May 15, 2023 3:33 pm

People used to buy RB2011UiAS-2HnD-IN because they are used to it and used to have same configs on all devices for years, and never because they needed RACK mount option (which 2011 doesn't have at all, not that 4 slow wifi routers in a RACK makes much sense to me anyways)

RB2011 without WiFi does have a rack model, we use several of those. There even are different models with/without LCD and more RAM.

Tue May 16, 2023 8:30 am

People did not "used to" buy RB2011. They buy it today. A lot. L009 is similar, but better. At the same price.

Buckeye · Tue May 16, 2023 9:32 am

People did not "used to" buy RB2011. They buy it today. A lot. L009 is similar, but better. At the same price.

But you didn't really address why people are still buying it. As pointed out in the rest of the post you quoted.

and as for drop in replacement this device isn't because it only supports ROS 7 and WifiWave2 which are not drop in replaceable for people not upgrading their ROS which are most of 2011 users...

volkirik · Tue May 16, 2023 9:43 am

coz ownership cost per port is apparently higher?

volkirik · Tue May 16, 2023 9:45 am

ipv6 fasttrack is not available in RouterOS, so there are better alternatives, too..

Tue May 16, 2023 9:45 am

Compact, flat laying case. More Ethernet ports than other models (not counting switches). Wireless not very important, maybe only for IoT. Very cheap compared to other fully featured routers with as many ports.

Tue May 16, 2023 9:48 am

This is the situation if you need more than 5 ports

volkirik · Tue May 16, 2023 9:57 am

you could just keep port count @ 10 ports. Cost per port is simply increased.. Not everyone need gigabit..

and you respond with "pay even more to upgrade more expensive models..."

volkirik · Tue May 16, 2023 9:59 am

can this thing (L009) "route" 1 gbps link-rate ipv6 traffic? no. why would I pay same price for gigabit ports if I can not utilize them because your ancient quirky software lacks IPV6 FastTrack and IPV6 RouteCache? Even TPLINK gaming routers are faster than mikrotik nowadays if you dont need advanced protocols like BGP/PPPoE server..?

and why would i buy cloud router for my SOHO setup? if i am not ISP.. think twice.. think future.. Invest once, not every year.. so go for other brands..

Tue May 16, 2023 10:07 am

Give specific numbers, how much IPv6 are you routing throug the TPLINK gaming router (which costs 3 times more than L009 by the way). Let's compare then

volkirik · Tue May 16, 2023 10:11 am

I use default routing.. You do not need anything else if you are single-homed SOHO.

You can continue your obstinacy about not implementing V6 F.T. I dunno what people @ ros development are doing more important.

With your company's products and ancient quirky ROS, it is like buy gigabit hardware and route megabits or buy terabit hardware and then you can route gigabits..

volkirik · Tue May 16, 2023 10:16 am

I proposed extra package to be able to use IPV4 FASTTRACK with VPN protocols. wrote an example script, but it is resource-intensive..

Contacted MT support for proper implementation (kernel module or userspace application as extra package or bundled with ROS)

nobody cares... and first I got response saying "IMPOSSIBLE".. well, you just need to take your blinders off, first.

If I were to request some other thing that you are interested to fix/implement; i would get alpha build in a week or so..

volkirik · Tue May 16, 2023 10:28 am

Percentage of TLDs with IPv6 nameservers: 98.5%
Percentage of TLDs that have nameservers with IPv6 glue in the root zone: 98.3%
Percentage of top 1000 Usenet Servers with direct addresses with IPv6 support: 41.56%
Percentage of ASes (IPv4 or IPv6) running IPv6: 38.7%
Percentage reachable IPv6 rDNS Nameservers reachable via IPv6: 63.8%
Percentage of IPv6 rDNS Nameservers where IPv6 is as fast or faster than IPv4 (within 1ms): 59.9%

get your head out of the clouds!

Tue May 16, 2023 10:29 am

How is this even relevant to this topic?

Tue May 16, 2023 10:40 am

You still did not write any exact test results. This is all just "I want this feature, I don't know why"

pe1chl · Tue May 16, 2023 10:48 am

Give specific numbers, how much IPv6 are you routing

These days, on my home router the traffic volume ratio is about 40/60 for IPv6/IPv4.
At work, it is about 50/50.

volkirik · Tue May 16, 2023 10:50 am

whoever wants to do the work, finds the result; Those who don't want to, find an excuse.

I am paying customer (both cloud and physical), you are the responsible party to test the feature.. I do not have test lab.

In my SOHO setup with HAP AC, I get 68M/100M for IPV6/IPv4, YMMV

Tue May 16, 2023 10:54 am

I am talking about performance. Your complaint is that it is slow. Still no exact test or comparison with those other routers

volkirik · Tue May 16, 2023 10:55 am

You have test lab. share IPV6 test results so we can get to know what we are buying if we buy 5009 series..

we are not interested in bridged performance as we are not buying a switch. but a router.. so IPv6 routing performance is what to look.

You are over-promising.

volkirik · Tue May 16, 2023 11:02 am

How is this even relevant to this topic?

How is LATVIA's IPV6 availability even relevant to IPV6 fasttrack implementation if you are routing "the world"?

If you dont have IPv6, buy an IPv6 prefix, AS Number from RIPE LIR and bgp-supported virtual machine in europe. then you can test each and every feature via VPN

frantech offers BGP & VM for 3.5 usd in luxembourg. see also https://snapserv.net/services/ripe/ , https://ifog.ch/en/ip/lir-services

Tue May 16, 2023 11:03 am

So let me understand something. You are complaining about IPv6 speed, but you don't actually know how fast RouterOS v7 IPv6 is?

mrz · Tue May 16, 2023 11:05 am

So to sum up. You are complaining that L009 can not push the same amount ipv6 traffic as tplink, yet your ipv6 traffic cap is only 68M, basically you are nowhere near what even hap ac can forward.

volkirik · Tue May 16, 2023 11:06 am

read #74 and #75 in this topic. it is slower and you know it. why act a fool?

mrz · Tue May 16, 2023 11:28 am

Your usage cap is 68M, you will not get more no matter what router you choose, whether it is tplink, mikrotik, cisco, you name it.

pe1chl · Tue May 16, 2023 11:30 am

I am talking about performance. Your complaint is that it is slow. Still no exact test or comparison with those other routers

Well, I agree with him that "Test results" for products on the product page (certainly for those that are still being sold) should include a specification of what "Routing" speed really means (is it IPv4 routing? is it IPv6 routing? is it the unspecified slowest or fastest of the two?).
Also, there should be separate test result sections for RouterOS v6 and v7 when the device supports both.

As it is now, you cannot compare the 2011 and L009 test tesults because one of them was made with v6 and the other with v7.
And also, you cannot predict the IPv6 routing performance of any model, because the "Routing" test results for all models presumably are for IPv4.

Emil66 · Tue May 16, 2023 12:01 pm

/* edit: off topic */

pe1chl · Tue May 16, 2023 12:11 pm

it takes extensive configuration with scripts to achieve basic functionality like a selective firewall

There really isn't much difference between IPv4 and IPv6 firewall configuration. A problem in RouterOS v6 is that IPv6 is an optional module that is disabled by default, and when you first poweron a router it gets default config that does not include IPv6. When you then enable IPv6 you need to "reset configuration" to get the default IPv6 firewall, otherwise you have no firewall (and all is wide open). Of course RouterOS should generate default config for any module that is later added, but it doesn't.
In RouterOS v7 it is better because IPv6 is now enabled by default and thus the default firewall config is generated automatically.
It is comparable to a typical IPv4 NAT router config: only outgoing connections and their replies are allowed.

volkirik · Tue May 16, 2023 6:10 pm

Linux has wide-range of selector for applying Routing Rule

https://man7.org/linux/man-pages/man8/ip-rule.8.html

Please implement them in ancient quirky MT ROS

thanks and regards

Emil66 · Tue May 16, 2023 11:01 pm

/* edit: off topic */

pe1chl · Wed May 17, 2023 12:53 pm

I have no such requirement, my prefix is static. And most users don't have the requirement to open ports to a local server.

rextended · Wed May 17, 2023 2:34 pm

There really isn't much difference between IPv4 and IPv6 firewall configuration.
Yes, there is. Open an inbound port to a local server with a fixed interface identifier and a dynamic prefix, and do it without a script, please.

This is offtopic, open separate topic.

/ipv6 firewall nat
add action=dst-nat chain=dstnat dst-port=443 in-interface=ether5 protocol=tcp to-address=fe80::8888:8abc:88ef:ab8/128

anav · Fri May 26, 2023 3:40 am

Its too bad ego gets in the way of facts........ If you need wifi then you should not be buying the L009 ( I would argue that looking at different vendors for the AP is not unreasonable at the moment ). Its only there as a side fringe benefit, like the admin walks around and wants to be able to use wifi to config the router without going back to his desk....... etc.
Not to server the needs of 100 users........ As far as IPV6 performance I think its Peachy has a great input in that test results should state clearly for what type of connection assuming there is a significant enough difference to state it being ipv4 or ipv6. Same same with ver6 to ver7 as it is significant!

The rest of the ipv6 discussion was mostly useless noise by one person. Remember ego.......... Personally I really like RoS, would I like to see some changes, yes, but its pretty darned flexible. Note no commmercial for what I want added, biting tongue here. :-)

As for the L0009, before the test results were posted, seemed like a great fit between the hex and the 5009. Now I have to state that it is a piece of red junk, that could make a paperweight conversation piece and agree with others that at this price range the hapaax3 make more sense in terms of routing performance. Who gives a crap about 2G when one is going to get between 300-600 Mbps performance. The hapax3 runs circles in core performance around the L009. Missed the mark entirely. Its almost an embarrassing product that seemed good to somebody, while everyone was looking the other way at the meeting. Sure sure, go ahead product sounds great, whilst watching footy on their cellphones.

Add a consumer gig switch for peanuts to the ax3, to add more ports.......

Amm0 · Fri May 26, 2023 6:23 am

Personally I really like RoS [...]

and I'm also a big fan of the RB5009 form factor. That's a great device. But have to agree...

As for the L0009, [..] Missed the mark entirely.

What missing is a RB5xxx with more SFPs so you can link 4 x RB5009 at >2.5Gbs in the same 1U. The world did not need a RB2011 remake.

OKNET · Tue May 30, 2023 10:46 am

Is L0009 available on the market ??
I see just a lot of advertising but "not in stock"...

Tue May 30, 2023 10:48 am

It was only announced as available soon. MikroTik always announces products ahead of time.

netravnen · Fri Aug 04, 2023 1:11 am

> CCR2004/CSS326-powered gaming festival

viewtopic.php?p=1016956#p1016956

ksteink · Mon Aug 21, 2023 6:51 pm

No newsetter in more than 2 months!. I am still looking the CRS326-24G replacement with 2.5 Gbps, 10 Gbps and QSFP!!

Mon Aug 21, 2023 7:03 pm

Holiday season. They are also entitled to have some time off.

wispmikrotik · Wed Sep 06, 2023 12:58 pm

@normis No newsetter?

mkx · Wed Sep 06, 2023 1:24 pm

I'm guessing holiday season in Latvia ends on 18th of November ...

pe1chl · Wed Sep 06, 2023 2:01 pm

It also appears that short "news" items are now published on the Youtube channel.
The newsletter already became more like a pointer to that in a past edition, maybe they really planned to abandon it but continued due to popular demand.
Anyway, publishing individual news items instead of aggregating them in a "letter" certainly has advantages.

Wed Sep 06, 2023 2:02 pm

No new products to announce. When we will have something, there will be a newsletter.

pe1chl · Wed Sep 06, 2023 2:27 pm

Youtube channel has announced new products CRS310-8G+2S+IN, 915 Omni antenna, hAP ax lite LTE6.

Wed Sep 06, 2023 2:29 pm

new newsletter will come soon with CRS310-8G+2S+IN, hAP ax lite LTE6.
but it would be more exciting with more products, so we don't rush

ToTheFull · Wed Sep 06, 2023 2:32 pm

I think you under estimate the buzz around the new CRS310-8G+2S+IN

pe1chl · Fri Sep 08, 2023 3:40 pm

And indeed, newsletter 114 was released!