Forum moderation volunteers

Mon Jun 26, 2023 1:29 pm

Is anyone here interested in volunteering to approve and disapprove new member posts? Let me know, and let's fight the AI/LLM spam together

rextended · Mon Jun 26, 2023 2:16 pm

Is anyone here interested in volunteering to approve and disapprove new member posts? Let me know, and let's fight the AI/LLM spam together

If you need a hand again, I'm here.
In fact I noticed the slowness in removing spam and other problems.
This time I'll just stop being an asshole, so I don't give any more problems.

As you can see 90% of the reports come from my "SpamGPT" method which I use to spot spam posts instantly...

spippan · Mon Jun 26, 2023 2:35 pm

Is anyone here interested in volunteering to approve and disapprove new member posts? Let me know, and let's fight the AI/LLM spam together
This time I'll just stop being an asshole, so I don't give any more problems.

...for how long?

rextended · Mon Jun 26, 2023 2:38 pm

This time I'll just stop being an asshole, so I don't give any more problems.
...for how long?

The posts already present "speak" for themselves.

spippan · Mon Jun 26, 2023 2:41 pm

...for how long?
The posts already present "speak" for themselves.

good

rextended · Mon Jun 26, 2023 2:43 pm

The posts already present "speak" for themselves.
good

anav · Mon Jun 26, 2023 3:24 pm

I am on quite a bit and can certainly assist in removing spam. I am also cat friendly.

Some of my best posts are not actually my own!
...

gateau.jpg

pe1chl · Mon Jun 26, 2023 3:33 pm

I think the important point is that it is for "volunteering to approve and disapprove new member posts".
Unfortunately, several moderators of the present and past cannot restrict themselves to only performing this task, and they drift away into
policing others in how to write their articles, and edit articles when they are not to their taste. Often without mentioning their account name.
Hopefully MikroTik presents them with clear rules on what is allowed for moderators, and maintains these.

rextended · Mon Jun 26, 2023 3:39 pm

I think the important point is that it is for "volunteering to approve and disapprove new member posts".
Unfortunately, several moderators of the present and past cannot restrict themselves to only performing this task, and they drift away into
policing others in how to write their articles, and edit articles when they are not to their taste. Often without mentioning their account name.
Hopefully MikroTik presents them with clear rules on what is allowed for moderators, and maintains these.

In fact, when I was the moderator they took it out on me, but then things continued the same even when I wasn't anymore,
it couldn't have been me... If you know what I mean...
Anyway I understand what you're referring to, but it seems to me that lately it has stopped ...

Mon Jun 26, 2023 8:25 pm

I can do this. I’ve been moderating multiple web forums for many years.

Mon Jun 26, 2023 8:48 pm

Count me in as well if you need extra hands.

DarkNate · Mon Jun 26, 2023 10:48 pm

In fact, when I was the moderator they took it out on me, but then things continued the same even when I wasn't anymore,
it couldn't have been me... If you know what I mean...
Anyway I understand what you're referring to, but it seems to me that lately it has stopped ...

It did not stop. My comments and many others were simply deleted from the 7.10stable thread and many other threads. Any mention of poor software quality and boom, comment gets deleted.

The only reason for me personally to still be here is because network operators can't always afford Juniper or Arista or Nokia. However, I'm working with white box vendors to get things implemented and supported, and eventually we're removing all MikroTik hardware/software, and I'll be exiting this forum for good.

Mon Jun 26, 2023 11:30 pm

Some tend to overuse the freedom of speech which is given to them arquing that "what is not forbidden is allowed".

gabacho4 · Mon Jun 26, 2023 11:38 pm

Some tend to overuse the freedom of speech which is given to them arquing that "what is not forbidden is allowed".

And others tend to abuse their moderator powers to impose their will that "what is not forbidden, should be." I believe Normis has weighed in a couple of times on that front. Stop spam, crap GPT posts, but don't tell me how to quote others.

Mon Jun 26, 2023 11:45 pm

It is a perfect example how tough medaration process is ... do treat/respect others as you want to be treated/respected.

gabacho4 · Mon Jun 26, 2023 11:47 pm

Well said... Which is exactly why I don't pretend to tell others how they should post so long as they aren't posting spam, inappropriate material, or otherwise abusing the forums.

Tue Jun 27, 2023 12:18 am

I can help with this responsibility as well. IDK if a minimal amount of post is required for such task =)

Tue Jun 27, 2023 2:47 am

I'll volunteer to help.

Tue Jun 27, 2023 3:30 am

I am interested, i apply for it

Tue Jun 27, 2023 10:38 am

I think the important point is that it is for "volunteering to approve and disapprove new member posts"....

Moderation is as tough task as bringing up kids. Kids always find "a gate" in the well known but not written down rules and use it focusing on the particular part convinient for them. You ask to clean a desk so they drop everything on a floor and present clean&tidy desk standing in a pile of crap. No way to discuss as you asked for a clean desk not a clean room. And so on ....

Oh, come on, do you think that Normis asked for help just for approving posts just of new memebers and not for typical everyday moderation?

https://www.easytechjunkie.com/what-is- ... erator.htm

rextended · Tue Jun 27, 2023 10:51 am

You are right, and as I had already written to you, after going through it too,
I understood the pressure both I and other users were giving you, and my apologies to you were due.

I think Normis is looking for a moderator, not for 5 minutes a day, but for more time, otherwise the waits continue to be long.
With the work I do, I have to be connected all the time, basically from 09:00 (CET) to 22:00 (CET) (if not longer…) 7 days a week.
(yes, of course I also have a private life and I'm not in front of the computer all the time)
And then I've already done it, so I already know how it all works.

Tue Jun 27, 2023 12:29 pm

Rextended .. no need to apologize so many times.

Life^H^H^H^H Moderation is unpredictable and sometimes tough. If you "accept a challenge" then there is no time to snivel

wiseroute · Tue Jun 27, 2023 12:49 pm

think Normis is looking for a moderator, not for 5 minutes a day, but for more time, otherwise the waits continue to be long.
With the work I do, I have to be connected all the time, basically from 09:00 (CET) to 22:00 (CET) (if not longer…) 7 days a week.

no. not again

how can I make that script? hmm... how many pipes?

# script for adding moderators in different time zones - reducing post approval bottleneck.

: local 5minutes
: local members
: local gmt

for (gmt= 0, gmt le 12, gmt++)
do
find members
add members to moderators
done

hmm... ??

...

have a great day folks

Tue Jun 27, 2023 1:10 pm

It did not stop. My comments and many others were simply deleted from the 7.10stable thread and many other threads. Any mention of poor software quality and boom, comment gets deleted.

When a version is released there is a bold text "Please keep this forum topic strictly related to this particular RouterOS release."
If it gets out of hand and becomes spam unrelated to a particular RouterOS release, posts WILL BE DELETED.

If you want to discuss RouterOS release strategies or get something else from your chest there are other more appropriate topics, where your posts will not be deleted.

pe1chl · Tue Jun 27, 2023 1:16 pm

I think the important point is that it is for "volunteering to approve and disapprove new member posts"....
Moderation is as tough task as bringing up kids. Kids always find "a gate" in the well known but not written down rules and use it focusing on the particular part convinient for them. You ask to clean a desk so they drop everything on a floor and present clean&tidy desk standing in a pile of crap. No way to discuss as you asked for a clean desk not a clean room. And so on ....

Well, the most important thing is that the moderator is not supposed to bring up "the kids". And certainly not by changing their posts. Pointing to a published set of guidelines and rules (which is hard to find on this forum), and alltogether removing posts that are outside the rules, is the limit of their responsibility. Editing posts to make them to your taste is NOT.

ToTheFull · Tue Jun 27, 2023 2:01 pm

Editing posts to make them to your taste is NOT.

Sounds very creepy....

Paternot · Tue Jun 27, 2023 2:46 pm

Editing posts to make them to your taste is NOT.
Sounds very creepy....

Yes, and it is what was going on.

Quoted more lines than the moderator liked? They were cut in full - taking out all the context in that post. I understand some people don't like quotes longer than 2 lines, but sometimes one can't help it. And the forum isn't threaded, so we can't use the thread of messages as a guide, to see what some answer is about.

Hence, quoting. But that was heavily moderated, much to the detrimental of discussions. I, for one, basically give up on posting - too much hassle.

anav · Tue Jun 27, 2023 3:06 pm

With the work I do, I have to be connected all the time, basically from 09:00 (CET) to 22:00 (CET) (if not longer…) 7 days a week.
(yes, of course I also have a private life and I'm not in front of the computer all the time)
And then I've already done it, so I already know how it all works.

I can attest to the shocking amount of times I am up late and see rextended just posted, WTF, of course have to explain what he meant to the poor op trying to decipher pigeon Italian

Larsa · Tue Jun 27, 2023 4:20 pm

I've just a couple of simple requests for any future moderator: no more "quote" flame wars or deleted posts. Instead, please focus on spam.

Thank you!

Tue Jun 27, 2023 4:26 pm

What the spam is ... let's see ...

Spam is unnecessary, unwanted, or repetitive content that clogs inboxes and clutters social media feeds. The term “spam” has been used to refer to junk messages since the earliest days of the Internet.

quoted from: https://blog.hootsuite.com/social-media ... ions/spam/

gabacho4 · Tue Jun 27, 2023 4:43 pm

I think all reasonable users can agree that spam is things like a post for p3nis enlargement or something else obnoxious and unrelated to the purpose of the form. Spam is not generally considered to be a user using a legitimate feature of the forum to quote or otherwise refer to another user's post. The mod's way of using the forum does not have to be my way or else my post gets edited or deleted. That is not free and fair conversation. That's censorship and yhe imposition of one's view on the rights of another. Damn this conversation is so outrageous at this point. LEAVE OUR LEGITIMATE POSTS ALONE!

pe1chl · Tue Jun 27, 2023 5:03 pm

The reason we get these AI generated reply messages that have to be moderated by a human, is that the board allows unlimited editing of user posts.
Those bots (or lowly paid users) that port for the first time and put a ChatGPT-generated blurb (or just copy a message from earlier in the topic) is that they plan to wait for it to be approved, and then they plan to edit it and put their advertisement in there.
When the board would simply set the editing to be only allowed for an hour or so (so legitimate posters can correct typos or omissions they notice just after Submit) that mode of operation becomes impossible, and I would expect that this abuse will become less or stop completely.

Tue Jun 27, 2023 5:12 pm

....That's censorship and yhe imposition of one's view on the rights of another. Damn this conversation is so outrageous at this point. LEAVE OUR LEGITIMATE POSTS ALONE!

Please decide if this post (reported to moderators) should be deleted or not? viewtopic.php?p=1009948#p1009948

Larsa · Tue Jun 27, 2023 5:14 pm

That's a different matter (whataboutism). What is you point?

gabacho4 · Tue Jun 27, 2023 5:21 pm

BartosP, that post is not spam. It is not unrelated to Mikrotik or promoting another product or fake service. Why would it be deleted? It is someone expressing their frustration with the seemingly arbitrary way things are moderated on this forum. A sentiment echoed by a number of us. Just because people don't like it, doesn't make it spam or inappropriate. And I thought the cancel culture was merely a US phenomenon. Think what i think, say it like I want you to, and don't say anything that I might disagree with or else I'll snitch on you and threaten you and make sure you are shut up one way or another. Come on!

rextended · Tue Jun 27, 2023 5:24 pm

This is spam, detected from my SpamGPT
viewtopic.php?p=968765#p968765

gabacho4 · Tue Jun 27, 2023 5:29 pm

This is spam, detected from my SpamGPT
viewtopic.php?p=968765#p968765

No one is arguing that legitimate spam or inappropriate posts shouldn't be removed. I'm all for it. I'm referring to the many edited by AnalForumMod with a Reason stating not to use quotes or whatever the language is. That's wrong!

Joni · Tue Jun 27, 2023 5:30 pm

How about the moderators "merging" topics and posts into categories, the repeated topics year in and out gets a bit useless.

rextended · Tue Jun 27, 2023 5:30 pm

Oh, some moderator just delete the post, after i post the link....
viewtopic.php?t=142428#p1010120

Another example...
viewtopic.php?p=974018#p995612
notice the hidden link to htt ps: / / sub *** way *** surfers. io/
But SpamGPT still detect that

Tue Jun 27, 2023 5:32 pm

Examples from Rex, definitely spam.
D E L

The previous one from BartoszP: clearly an argument and (for me) to be classified as freedom of speech. The tone is something else but there's no name calling, no playing man, only ball.
You can agree to disagree in a civil way.

rextended · Tue Jun 27, 2023 5:32 pm

And the quote.... with hidden link inside.... to ht t p s:// 1 v 1 - l o l.io/
viewtopic.php?p=995614#p976816

Tue Jun 27, 2023 5:33 pm

Errm... rex ... you do know you're spamming this thread ?

gabacho4 · Tue Jun 27, 2023 5:38 pm

This is the kind of arbitrary and unacceptable Mod crap I am referring to (pulled from a random post):

Last edited by AnalForumMod on Thu May, 2023, edited 1 time in total. Reason: removed excessive quotting of preceding post; be wise, quote smart. lines of quote, 1 line of post.

In other words, I the Mod don't like the way you write so I'll change what you wrote and then I'll tell you how to write. If you don't do it my way, I'll keep changing your posts or eventually delete them. And then you wonder why DarkNate is as angry as he is?

rextended · Tue Jun 27, 2023 5:42 pm

@holvoetn

No, I provide valid examples of spam...

What SpamGPT can find.... (ok, the last)
hidden link to ht t p s :// get- --- o.c om/ h o me/
viewtopic.php?p=975133#p975133

Tue Jun 27, 2023 5:46 pm

btw those posts are approved by moderators

rextended · Tue Jun 27, 2023 5:50 pm

btw those posts are approved by moderators

I've always noticed it and I've never been fooled when I approved the posts...

99.9% of spam comes from a big state, whose reputation I don't want to spoil, I don't know if it's correct to write it (it's not the Russians)

gabacho4 · Tue Jun 27, 2023 5:54 pm

@mrz and Mikrotik staff - you all really have to start to have a more active role in ending the overzealous mod issue. This is your brand name and reputation. It's a Mikrotik owned forum. There are people literally abandoning the forum and your products because of the toxic experience they are subjected to by a very small number of people who go on power trips. I'm thankful for mods who volunteer to help keep the forums safe. But those that try to enforce policies that don't exist or punish people for breaking rules that don't exist have got to have their mod rights removed.

Tue Jun 27, 2023 5:55 pm

Moderators are getting confused ... delete all off-topic posts from this thread or not?

"Freedom of writing" vs. "could you answer strictly to my question"?

Deleting implies: You are bad guy who does not let us express our thoughts.
Leaving them means: You are bad guy who does not clean topics from unwanted posts.

No matter what you do, there are some dissatisfied people.

In Poland we say: No matter how you turn around, the ass is always in the back.

rextended · Tue Jun 27, 2023 5:57 pm

In Poland we say: No matter how you turn around, the ass is always in the back.

In Italy one similar: The more you turn it, the more the s—t stinks...

rextended · Tue Jun 27, 2023 5:59 pm

The truth is: Any discussion is never strictly on the OP's topic.
Resolved or not the problem, we will always talk about other things.
Just look at all the topics already open...

gabacho4 · Tue Jun 27, 2023 6:02 pm

In this thread a call for mod volunteers was made. Related to that very action are the responses of those of us that are trying to ensure that Mikrotik wisely chooses mods who don't abuse us in the course of posting to the forum. This is no unrelated. It's entirely on topic. Already demonstrated is a clear misunderstanding of free speech and arbitrary censorship. Use whatever funny, pithy proverbs you want, it doesn't change the fact that a non-insignificant number of us are done with the crap.

rextended · Tue Jun 27, 2023 6:04 pm

Excuse me, but did you write it to me?
Without the quote I don't get it

anav · Tue Jun 27, 2023 6:05 pm

I concur, a simple question from Normis, has turned into a pile of doodoo. However, I do quite appreciate humour be it butt polish or shitty Italan!

Tue Jun 27, 2023 6:06 pm

So please go back to the topic .... some started to use offensive names and IMHO should be warned or their post should be moderated, let them speek/write ... they prove themselves what moderators are needed for.

rextended · Tue Jun 27, 2023 6:07 pm

I concur, a simple question from Normis, has turned into a pile of doodoo.

You also put the paw (of your cat) on it

anav · Tue Jun 27, 2023 6:07 pm

You guys crack me up ( which covers both the ass and the mierda ).

Amm0 · Tue Jun 27, 2023 6:52 pm

I think @pe1chl suggestion on edit limits and/or potential other BB controls is worth some consideration. Don't know what's possible, but more automation is generally a good thing & forces a rules-based approach.

FWIW, while I actually like when mods truncate way-longer-than-necessary quotes ... it does seem like the consensus is moderators should not do this....

But, as a whole, I don't have significant complaints about how moderation has been handled in my time here.

Larsa · Tue Jun 27, 2023 7:43 pm

IMO, the quotation "issue" should be addressed using a BBEdit plugin rather than relying on the arbitrary judgment and preference of a moderator.

Paternot · Tue Jun 27, 2023 11:49 pm

FWIW, while I actually like when mods truncate way-longer-than-necessary quotes ... it does seem like the consensus is moderators should not do this....

The problem is when someone truncated a necessarily long quote. Save from reading it entirely - and understanding the context - it's really hit and miss.

There is (was?) a rule for quoting, when I used newsgroups: If the original message is more than 4 lines long, then the full answer post should have more than 50% text. in other words: if you want to quote more than 4 lines of the previous post, be sure to write one new line for each quoted.

If the original post is 4 lines or less, editing the quote is appreciated, but not enforced. After all, with 4 lines we may (MAY, not must) very well need to reference all of it.

It's a simple rule, and quite effective. I had even one perl filter on my news server, that only allowed long quotes if new content was 50% or more of the message.

Now, to get a nice and long flame war going we need to discuss the merits of threaded posts and top posting. This will put any VI/EMACS discussion to shame.

Amm0 · Tue Jun 27, 2023 11:57 pm

This will put any VI/EMACS discussion to shame.

Seems more like a sed and awk problem to me

.

Paternot · Wed Jun 28, 2023 2:23 am

Seems more like a sed and awk problem to me .

Ah, a man of culture, I see.

wiseroute · Wed Jun 28, 2023 4:24 am

This will put any VI/EMACS discussion to shame.
Seems more like a sed and awk problem to me .

where is that notepad when we need it most?

Buckeye · Wed Jun 28, 2023 5:19 am

No matter what you do, there are some dissatisfied people.

In Poland we say: No matter how you turn around, the ass is always in the back.

That's funny that I thought it meant "you never see you own faults", or something like "it's hard to see the dirt on your own face". But you are correct, according to this Quora thread https://www.quora.com/Do-you-know-cool- ... sh-sayings one of the posts had this:

“Jak się nie obrócisz - dupa zawsze z tyłu” (whatever way you turn, your ass is always behind you) used when you faced a problem and all the solutions seem to lead to the same unfortunate outcome.

Wed Jun 28, 2023 8:55 am

More or less ... it's obvious that same sayings could be applied in different contexts to different situations.
In that particular situation you can read it as: Trying to satisfy all is as trying to see your own ass.

own3r1138 · Wed Jun 28, 2023 9:57 am

I am on quite a bit and can certainly assist in removing spam. I am also cat friendly.
Some of my best posts are not actually my own!
...
gateau.jpg

I think your cat is trying to say something to you. Is it concerned about the pile of junk on your keyboard?

Wed Jun 28, 2023 10:31 am

msatter · Wed Jun 28, 2023 11:30 am

You can't do three clicks without seeing a cat. They are a real pest.

Wed Jun 28, 2023 12:59 pm

I added a few new moderators that signed up for help. Their names are now green. This time I chose a few new people, who have not been moderating before.
I hope the new (and old) moderators can:

1. help approve posts and disapprove spam
2. merge duplicate topics, or lock one of two
3. not teach people how to quote or how to write
4. not spam themselves

thank you VERY much for the help, it is really appreciated. I hope with more moderators, we can have less work for each of them

Larsa · Wed Jun 28, 2023 1:27 pm

Great sum-up and good luck to all new moderators!

rextended · Wed Jun 28, 2023 1:38 pm

@chechito, @holvoetn, @martinclaro @tangent, @TomjNorthIdaho,
(in alphabetical order)
Congratulations!

rextended · Wed Jun 28, 2023 1:52 pm

@normis

This time I chose a few new people, who have not been moderating before.

Diplomacy is not lacking, you have elected all(***) those who propose themselves as moderators, except one (

).
He's fine with the trial without the defendant knowing or defending himself on Reddit, right?

Whatever happens, it will be a success.

(***) In my opinion, I agree with all of them, which I already respect, except one, which I don't know well...

anav · Wed Jun 28, 2023 2:26 pm

yup, all good peeps, but how cannot argentina cry for rextended LOL He is now a shadow of himself, a mere rodent.

Wed Jun 28, 2023 2:30 pm

Where is the cat?

rextended · Wed Jun 28, 2023 2:30 pm

Where is the cat?

You abandoned me on the Street.

anav · Wed Jun 28, 2023 2:49 pm

Italian cats dont have nine lives LOL. Rextended is now a humble guinea pig.
But fear not, I have fastened a llama saddle so that getting from point A to point B ( vinyard A to vinyard B ) wont take forever.

....

rodent-ride.jpg

Wed Jun 28, 2023 2:53 pm

@chechito, @holvoetn, @martinclaro @tangent, @TomjNorthIdaho,
(in alphabetical order)
Congratulations!

[insert spider man quote here]

Amm0 · Wed Jun 28, 2023 2:57 pm

I think someone pressed the "stow" button on the cats:

rextended · Wed Jun 28, 2023 2:58 pm

–––

Wed Jun 28, 2023 3:14 pm

Thanks for giving me the opportunity to contribute @Normis!

msatter · Wed Jun 28, 2023 3:23 pm

I think someone pressed the "stow" button on the cats:

I have only a "stew" button overhere. Let's see what it does.....oh no, poor animals...in China they would now call dinner!!

In Guangdong and Guangxi provinces of the Lingnan cultural region, some—especially older—people consider cat flesh a good warming food during winter months.

hmmm, fits the picture perfectly feli...fine. ;-)

rextended · Wed Jun 28, 2023 3:25 pm

–––

rextended · Wed Jun 28, 2023 5:24 pm

@BartoszP
Congratulations to be back again mainly as a Moderator!
Check Reddit from time to time, in case they put you under judgment too, without of course not being advised or given a chance to defend yourself...

anav · Wed Jun 28, 2023 5:37 pm

I would have preferred Larsa ;-PP

rextended · Wed Jun 28, 2023 5:42 pm

I would have preferred Larsa ;-PP

(I would have preferred ALSO @Larsa)

@Larsa is one of those people who, if there's something that doesn't suit them, says things to your face, and it's very appreciable,
compared to those who ruminate and plot behind your back.

anav · Wed Jun 28, 2023 5:55 pm

Besides that I am easily seduced by half vampire, half promise of Santa Gifts and of course the soft caress of butterfly wings...............

Amm0 · Wed Jun 28, 2023 5:59 pm

I'm not sure he volunteered. Does seem like a thankless job if done right...

Larsa · Wed Jun 28, 2023 6:14 pm

Thanks guys, but as Ammo pointed out, I didn't apply for it.

anav · Wed Jun 28, 2023 6:31 pm

I'm not sure he volunteered. Does seem like a thankless job if done right...

True dat, I am busy enough helping other people but have the sinking feeling that I wlll still see the spam before the dearly departed from regular posting do........

Znevna · Wed Jun 28, 2023 7:48 pm

[...]
3. not teach people how to quote or how to write
[...]

If this forum had any decent rules and guidelines for users and moderators to follow (like any forum of this size should have), preventing abuse of certain annoying behavior from users, and preventing moderators from getting reports of "abuse of power", maybe you'll have more well behaved users (knowing that it's a rule they agree to obey if they want to continue to be a member of the forum, and not just something that one or two moderators think it's right) and maybe more moderators will be willing to .. moderate, knowing what they need to look out for, what they need to punish and what they don't.

Regarding the "to quote or not to quote", every decent forum has some saying in this, but they all tend to agree on one thing, I'll post some examples:

When replying to a post, do not quote more from the previous post than you have to.

or

If quoting a previous post in your response, please try to use only the necessary part of the original quote that reflects what you’re saying.
We’re all human and therefore all have relatively short attention spans – usually too short to read through a huge chunk of quoted text. Posts are much easier to respond to when quotes within them are short and specific, doing so helps keeps discussion within each thread fluid.

or

Now, there are a couple of important points here. Generally, you don't want to leave the entire contents of someone's post inside yours. Usually, it is only some of the text you are commenting on, so, the right thing to do is to trim out of the quote area any text you don't care about, leaving just the text you are going to discuss in your post.

or

1) If it is the post directly above yours, don’t quote it
2) If the quote contains images - remove them first
3) If the post you are quoting is very long and you are only answering one part of it please edit the quote so that only the part you are responding to is relevant.

or

— Don't quote a post if you are the next person replying on the topic to the post immediately preceding. I.e. don't quote the post directly over yours. It is completely pointless and causes unnecessary clutter and reduces readability/information assimilation speed.
— Don't quote an entire post. When quoting a post from another member, don't quote the entire post, especially a long one, unless it is absolutely necessary to make your point. Please edit out whatever is not needed.
— Quote only if you reply to a specific point mentioned in a post which is not the last post in a topic. And in that case, limit your quote to the exact point you are commenting on.

..and others.
But you can see the big picture common in all of them.

Some of those were written over two decades ago, when "Netiquette" was a thing, sadly lost in the last years.
Here we have a little wild wild west sadly, no rules, no guidelines, just old grumpy angry users when they get punished in a way or another just because there's no rule telling them that what they're doing is bad/annoying for the majority of users.

rextended · Wed Jun 28, 2023 8:07 pm

If this forum had any decent rules and guidelines for users and moderators to follow
[…]
Here we have a little wild wild west sadly, no rules, no guidelines, just old grumpy angry users when they get punished in a way or another just because there's no rule telling them that what they're doing is bad/annoying for the majority of users.

@Znevna
The problem is that some administrators of the forum, rather than having troubles or investigating what the problems are,
prefer to indulge the usual 4 users who complain about the moderators, rather than making all the other 1000 forum users happy.
(And I was optimistic, since of the 75188 registered users, 50% or more don't even have a post, or at most have one, or are spam accounts...)
Or maybe they prefer to listen to two random users on Reddit, without even warning you or giving you a chance to rebut…
And maybe you find out by chance 8 months later...

Not, sorry, 75189, just registered "Math of Christ"
memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=219165

Is time to delete the ~6500 users without posts, and select from the ~24500 with only one post, all unreplied, what really needs to be kept.

Amm0 · Wed Jun 28, 2023 8:35 pm

Some of those were written over two decades ago, when "Netiquette" was a thing, sadly lost in the last years.
Here we have a little wild wild west sadly, no rules, no guidelines, just old grumpy angry users when they get punished in a way or another just because there's no rule telling them that what they're doing is bad/annoying for the majority of users.

Well, speaking of grumpy old men... RFC-1855 on Netiquette isn't obsoleted yet

https://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc1855.txt

Znevna · Wed Jun 28, 2023 10:11 pm

[...]
Is time to delete the ~6500 users without posts [...]

I was a member in a forum for over 5 years before I've made my first post in there.
You have to be registered in forums if you want to see attachments.
So having no posts is not something you should delete users on.
Actually you should never delete users, just anonymize them and their posts.

pe1chl · Wed Jun 28, 2023 10:12 pm

— Don't quote a post if you are the next person replying on the topic to the post immediately preceding. I.e. don't quote the post directly over yours. It is completely pointless and causes unnecessary clutter and reduces readability/information assimilation speed.

The problem with that is that you cannot know if your post will be immediately below the one you are replying to, especially in active topics like a release topic of a recent release.
And after you have posted a reply without any quote, you cannot easily insert the quote anymore.
So at best you can quote and reply, and then later edit the post to remove the quote once it is obvious that you are immediately below it.

rextended · Wed Jun 28, 2023 10:34 pm

So at best you can quote and reply, and then later edit the post to remove the quote once it is obvious that you are immediately below it.

+1 wish everyone had this common sense

rextended · Wed Jun 28, 2023 10:35 pm

[...]
Is time to delete the ~6500 users without posts [...]
I was a member in a forum for over 5 years before I've made my first post in there.
So having no posts is not something you should delete users on.
Actually you should never delete users, just anonymize them and their posts.

you're right, but I'm talking about users who haven't logged in for years....... and no one forbids them, if they need to, to register again...
and about only-one-post-user spammer...

You have to be registered in forums if you want to see attachments.

Thanks, I didn't know that.

Znevna · Wed Jun 28, 2023 10:50 pm

— Don't quote a post if you are the next person replying on the topic to the post immediately preceding. I.e. don't quote the post directly over yours. It is completely pointless and causes unnecessary clutter and reduces readability/information assimilation speed.
The problem with that is that you cannot know if your post will be immediately below the one you are replying to [...]

Sure you can, you get a warning to review your post when you hit submit if there are new replies submitted since you started writing your reply.
Here, while I was writing this, @rextended posted two replies:

mtforum-001.PNG

krafg · Thu Jun 29, 2023 12:53 am

If you need more hands, not problem to me. Would be glad to contribute to this forum.

Regards.

pe1chl · Thu Jun 29, 2023 10:32 am

The problem with that is that you cannot know if your post will be immediately below the one you are replying to [...]
Sure you can, you get a warning to review your post when you hit submit if there are new replies submitted since you started writing your reply.
Here, while I was writing this, @rextended posted two replies:
mtforum-001.PNG

But then, as I already wrote, you cannot easily insert the quote anymore. So it will only work when you first include it (of course spending time to trim it down) and then AFTER you posted, edit again to remove it.

Znevna · Thu Jun 29, 2023 10:54 am

I didn't screenshot the whole page and I don't remember what's under your edit box, but if all the replies are still under your edit box, it's pretty easy to hit the quote button on the post you want to quote, which just inserts it at the cursor position.
If not, you can always ctrl+c, close, quote, ctrl+v, submit.
It's not that hard, and this argument of yours shouldn't be the one stopping us from having some rules in this forum.
I'll look closer when I get the next Post Review notification.
I sometimes even just use @user to mark that this is a reply to the last post of that user, instead of using the quote function.

ljb · Thu Jun 29, 2023 7:37 pm

Visited the forum for another reason and spotted this at the top of the list.

I am mostly available from the 1st to 20th of each month and willing to help with moderation where I can.

Hit me up if you are interested.

ljb

Tue Jul 04, 2023 1:07 pm

I was absent for a few days and I see that discussion continues about the Netiquette ... good for all.

[...]
Is time to delete the ~6500 users without posts [...]
I was a member in a forum for over 5 years before I've made my first post in there. ....
Actually you should never delete users, just anonymize them and their posts.

IMHO it's time to delete all registered users who have 0 posts and the only their reason to register is to use this popular forum
as an aplifier SEO platform to get their links indexed like this one.

spama.PNG

Alrady suggested to Admins as moderators do have no such rights.

Tue Jul 04, 2023 1:27 pm

yes, we do that from time to time.
we can't delete fairly new users, as they might be real people who read forum

rextended · Tue Jul 04, 2023 1:32 pm

…

Posts are starting to disappear for no reason....

Now let's see if they start accusing me on Reddit without even telling me, this time they can't blame me, let's see if Reddit users convince you on someone else....
viewtopic.php?t=197438#p1010594
viewtopic.php?p=1011219#p1010605

Tue Jul 04, 2023 1:37 pm

Someone has been drinking vinegar...

rextended · Tue Jul 04, 2023 1:40 pm

Someone has been drinking vinegar...

Not at all, search my name on Reddit....
I didn't even know it, I discovered it by accident...

Tue Jul 04, 2023 1:59 pm

yes, we do that from time to time.
we can't delete fairly new users, as they might be real people who read forum

Maybe it's time to remove this column from "Memebrs" page? Or hide it to not let indexers read it?

rextended · Tue Jul 04, 2023 2:07 pm

yes, we do that from time to time.
we can't delete fairly new users, as they might be real people who read forum
Maybe it's time to remove this column from "Memebrs" page? Or hide it to not let indexers read it?

Other forums require to write one initial post convincing the moderators that you are human and explaining why you are registering.
Most, if not all, automatic accounts would be blocked...
Other forums, if you don't post, will cancel your account after 30 days... It would be enough to notify when registering.
And anyway, if needed, one would still register without problems.

I don't know if it can be done on phpbb.

Or, unless you want to post something, make registration useless if you only want to see attachments in posts...

Tue Jul 04, 2023 2:41 pm

Who will read it?

patrick7 · Tue Jul 04, 2023 2:45 pm

Might be a little bit off topic, but:

Please make it possible for guests to see attachements without registration. Apart from a little bit more traffic, it has only advantages, for both the guest (can see images without registering) and MikroTik (less users only registering to see a picture).

Thanks!

Znevna · Tue Jul 04, 2023 3:59 pm

I don't want my top secret attachments to be seen by every unregistered Bob out there.

mkx · Tue Jul 04, 2023 5:07 pm

I don't want my top secret attachments to be seen by every unregistered Bob out there.

Well, if this is the case, you should hire a consultant, force him/her/it to sign NDA and show him/her/it your top secret picture in a dark room without backlight switched on. Posting those pictures on this forum (unregistered users or not) simply doesn't work in this case.

Tue Jul 04, 2023 5:17 pm

I don't want my top secret attachments to be seen by every unregistered Bob out there.

Well, if this is the case, you should hire a consultant, force him/her/it to sign NDA and show him/her/it your top secret picture in a dark room without backlight switched on. Posting those pictures on this forum (unregistered users or not) simply doesn't work in this case.

Phew! At least we know what you are writing about

Buckeye · Wed Jul 05, 2023 7:07 am

…
Posts are starting to disappear for no reason....

Now let's see if they start accusing me on Reddit without even telling me, this time they can't blame me, let's see if Reddit users convince you on someone else....
viewtopic.php?t=197438#p1010594
viewtopic.php?p=1011219#p1010605

I have noticed this too. My opinion is that it is more likely to be a MikroTik employee than a new moderator, but I have absolutely no basis for that opinion other than that it isn't a new problem, and we know it was not @rextended. In the previous case, my reading of what @rextended had written was that he was able to see the reason that was given as the reason for the post being deleted, and not that he deleted the post himself.

And when these post get deleted, they are just gone, and any post you have made to the topic is also removed from your posting history. Without making copies of every post you make, there is no easy way to even know what the topic was.

The thread I am thinking about had a question about how to configure a MikroTik switch (CRS326 if my memory is correct) to work in an existing network. There was a diagram posted with it that showed the MikroTik switch, 6 UniFi access points, and what appeared to be a Synology NAS device. It didn't look like spam to me, at least I wouldn't have considered it spam. But I didn't look for hidden links, perhaps that was the reason.

If posts are not allowed to even mention a competitors product, how are new customers supposed to be able to introduce MikroTik into their existing environment?

I don't know if the creator of a topic has the ability to delete the topic, and take with it all replies. That's a possibility, as that happens on the Ubiquiti forum, and when it happens there, it highly irritates the people that have responded, because then no one else can benefit and learn from the thread.

It does not encourage anyone to post if what they post is just going to be deleted. Because some posts are longer than a twitter post, and take time to compose. As discussed in this thread Why was my forum topic deleted?

So this is a question: What are the reasons for deleting posts, and threads? And when they are deleted, are they just silently removed without any explanation?

Wouldn't a better method be to edit the offending parts (with note), and lock the thread? Then at least it there was useful info it could remain.

Wed Jul 05, 2023 7:27 am

both post you are referring are from newly created accounts, a factor that you are not taking into account
that accounts only have 1 post

Buckeye · Wed Jul 05, 2023 8:11 am

both post you are referring are from newly created accounts, a factor that you are not taking into account

That's correct, I did not take that into consideration. And I also did not do a google image search to see if the diagram was lifted from somewhere else to give credibility to the post. But this is going to be a harder and harder job, as AI generated posts and diagrams become more and more convincing.

I know nothing about the management/moderation of phpBB and what controls can be put in place to control the first time posters that post a seemingly sincere question, get it approved, and then come back later to add a spam link. It does seem that @rextended found a reasonably good (I assume mostly automated) way to detect the hidden links with his SpamGPT method.

I think someone suggested not allowing new users to edit posts, at least without the change being approved. But allowing a tentative edit to be made but for it to not be visible (at least to others, and web spiders) would require that phpBB have a relatively complex posting engine (perhaps it does, I really know nothing about how it works other that as a black box). And having to approve every edit and post would be moderator labor intensive, as well as introducing more latency. But it seems like even an AI agent could be trained to recognize most type of spam links. But it will continue to be a cat and mouse arms race.

Being a moderator is mostly a thankless job, and I appreciate the volunteers that offered there services to keep the forums as spam free as possible. I just don't like to see the baby get thrown out with the bath water (if it wasn't clear, the response posts being deleted with the offending topic).

Wed Jul 05, 2023 8:59 am

Just $0.02 to show what mix of posts had to be moderated and we (moderators) have to decide what is a true post, what is a spam and what is a background for later abuse.
If you see very valid and politically correct post "Thank you for sharing this info" then there is always a moment of frustration "do I delete very polite post" or "Is gonna this person to tweak later?" ... tough decision ... complaints that you moderate "too much" always hurt. Especially if users could avoid some unnecessary things themselves to help keep forum clean, tidy, readable and usable. I assume that most of us are "technicaly oriented" so short, not too wordy texts are our natural environment ...

Showing only my log records

spamb.PNG

Wed Jul 05, 2023 9:10 am

As a comment .. very fresh situation ...

Let me think ... should moderators delete or not any of these posts? Lock topic?

viewtopic.php?p=1011366#p1011366
viewtopic.php?t=197557

The first post was accepted so the second could be send with no accept and immediately poster drops an "cukoo's egg" to another topic.

Wed Jul 05, 2023 9:29 am

Double posts are already discouraged.
So I would remove the entry in the existing thread (and your response

) and let the new thread survive.
But that's me.

However ... looking at the 11 earlier posts this user made (disregarding the dupe), a careful moderator may become suspicious.
Not easy.

Wed Jul 05, 2023 9:31 am

I was sure what has to be done but it is an open question, let say rethorical, to show some users that moderation is not an easy zero-one task and it falls into fuzzy logic territories

rextended · Wed Jul 05, 2023 10:12 am

pity that someone has thrown my collaboration in the bin behaving like a vile coward, heeding the chatter on Reddit, without even being able to defend myself,
otherwise this spam post:
viewtopic.php?p=1011366#p996708
(which of course the other moderators didn't notice)
would have already been deleted...
The post was already like this originally, it hasn't been changed since...

Original post where I just "censored" links with added spaces and removed t on https:

[ quote=skxuio post_id=996708 time=1681657463 user_id=215744]
it runs however it doesn't execute any of the orders inside the content. It seems like it goes through the content, however doesn't really play out any of the means, until the end - which is "Press any key to exit...:" I've added the result once I run the content.

[ url=h tps://192 168 100 1.id/][ color=#a9a9a9][ size=31]192.168.100.1[/size][/color][/url] [ url=h tps://192 168 11.cam/][ color=#a9a9a9][ size=31]192.168.1.1[/size][/color][/url]
[/quote]

In fact even @BartoszP noticed more easily the (valid) double post than the real spam immediately before...

Wed Jul 05, 2023 10:37 am

Thank you for pointing ... removed, banned

Znevna · Wed Jul 05, 2023 10:45 am

This "Forum moderation volunteers" topic that was actually "Post approval volunteers" turned into something else sadly, probably I've contributed too in this matter, but that's only because I want for this forum to have actual moderators with some actual rules to follow and to impose upon users.
And no I'm not volunteering for the Post Approver or Moderator place, I'm bad at that. I like to think that my constructive criticism is helping here and there sometimes.
Cheers.

rextended · Wed Jul 05, 2023 11:50 am

@Znevna

…

I rarely read anything useless from you..

Wed Jul 05, 2023 2:53 pm

Znevna, what kind of rules you have in mind?

Wed Jul 05, 2023 3:11 pm

maybe sth like this:

more user friendly https://community.juniper.net/termsandconditions

or more law-focused https://community.cisco.com/t5/communit ... -p/4661660

and Znevna's suggestions: viewtopic.php?p=1010367#p1010367

Amm0 · Wed Jul 05, 2023 8:04 pm

…
I rarely read anything useless from you..

Hmm, there are internet standards for these things... It takes two to tango.

RFC 1855 - Netiquette Guidelines code

Network Working Group                                       S. Hambridge
Request For Comments: 1855                                   Intel Corp.
FYI: 28                                                     October 1995
Category: Informational


                         Netiquette Guidelines

[...]

3.0  One-to-Many Communication (Mailing Lists, NetNews)
[...]
3.1 User Guidelines
3.1.1 General Guidelines for mailing lists and NetNews
[...]
    - Don't get involved in flame wars.  Neither post nor respond
      to incendiary material.
[...]

Znevna · Wed Jul 05, 2023 8:18 pm

Some guidelines from 1995 for mailing lists are hardly "standards" for forum use, but sure, it's a starting point.

Larsa · Wed Jul 05, 2023 8:43 pm

My advice regarding "Code of Conduct" is to keep it short and concise with a maximum of three important guidelines. Additionally, include a welcome message that incorporates these guidelines for new members. For example:

1. Make this a welcoming forum by addressing each other with respect and hospitality, especially towards new members.
2. How to ask a question effectively (including details, exporting, formatting, etc.).
3. How to answer a question effectively (including quoting, providing relevant examples, etc.).

Detailed examples should be provided in a separate thread with a link to it.

rextended · Wed Jul 05, 2023 8:49 pm

1. Make this a welcoming forum by addressing each other with respect and hospitality, especially towards new members.
2. How to ask a question effectively (including details, exporting, formatting, etc.).
3. How to answer a question effectively (including quoting, providing relevant examples, etc.).

4. How to write a decent headline...

Wed Jul 05, 2023 8:54 pm

rextended · Wed Jul 05, 2023 8:55 pm

When I read only "help" or only "info" as the title of a topic, I often question the writer's sanity.
It seems to me impossible that anyone with a modicum of intelligence could not understand putting a pertinent title.
Especially the idiots like "don't install 7.10 because when I installed it my wife tripped on the stairs..."

Wed Jul 05, 2023 10:30 pm

Some guidelines from 1995 for mailing lists are hardly "standards" for forum use, but sure, it's a starting point.

The behavior of individual humans hasn't changed noticeably since 1995. It is true, however, that the aggregate behavior permitted by throwing all 8 billion online at once has changed, which may require fresh consideration.

Besides, if we're going to get rid of everything documented in RFCs from 1995 and before, RouterOS downloads are going to get a lot smaller.

Wed Jul 05, 2023 10:39 pm

There is a KISS rule .. it covers all problems in one short acronym but says nothing particular how to write pure, well structured and not too wordy posts.

msatter · Thu Jul 06, 2023 12:53 am

Air Force One must then have routers installed with ROS 7.10 for quite some time.

They now have a special stairs in the back of the plane. Far away from the routers in the front of the plane. Hope it helps.

Update: good news, RouterOS 7.10 was not the cause of the tripping on the stairs. Potus also tripped on the special stairs in the back of the plane, on Helsinki Airport.

rextended · Thu Jul 06, 2023 12:59 am

Buckeye · Thu Jul 06, 2023 1:14 am

Air Force One must then have routers installed with ROS 7.10 for quite some time.

They now have a special stairs in the back of the plane. Far away from the routers in the front of the plane. Hope it helps.

That flew over my head until I realized the context.

Thu Jul 06, 2023 2:52 am

…the context.

Thank you; me, too.

Thus we see the value in some quoting, in this non-threaded forum.

Thu Jul 06, 2023 8:55 am

The only people not adhering to common sense netiquette are right here in this topic. Most others just ask their questions and post their configs.

Znevna · Thu Jul 06, 2023 9:19 am

Thu Jul 06, 2023 9:23 am

This is the last time I'm saying this. There is no rule that forbids quoting the above post. If you harass people about it, ban for you

Znevna · Thu Jul 06, 2023 9:26 am

This is the last time I'm saying this. There is no rule that forbids quoting the above post. If you harass people about it, ban for you

You see @normis, replies like that make this forum and the support staff great.
Thank you!

Paternot · Thu Jul 06, 2023 2:57 pm

This is the last time I'm saying this. There is no rule that forbids quoting the above post. If you harass people about it, ban for you

Yes! Sanity prevails! Thank you!

Thu Jul 06, 2023 4:14 pm

Non dire gatto se non ce l'hai nel sacco

rextended · Thu Jul 06, 2023 5:36 pm

Non dire gatto se non ce l'hai nel sacco

E che c'entra?

[And what does it have to do with it?]

anav · Sun Jul 09, 2023 6:28 pm

Do you really want to make a difference ( no not add zerotrust cloudflare tunnel to RoS, but that would be awesome )
What I would like to see is a banner for NEW POSTERS.

FIRST POSTING
1. Provide an Accurate Title
2. Provide a Network Diagram ***
3. Provide your user based traffic flow requirements:
a. identify all user(s)/device(s) / groups of users/devices { include the admin }
b. identify all the traffic flow requirements of the above categories (what traffic they need to accomplish)
c. identify all the traffic they must not be able to accomplish.
4. Provide details on your ISP(s) connections
5. provide latest config /export file=anynameyouwish ( minus router serial number, any public WANIP information, keys etc. )
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Thus NEW posters can be readily identified. Could be a template they have to use for first posting etc......
Spam artists can be more readily identified.
If not mandatory, at least us as helpers can state, please provide the information as was pointed out to you when joined etc.

It will improve the quality of new posts, shorten up resolution of issues considerably, and perhaps help clean up the riffraff.

***
NETWORK DIAGRAM APPS:
https://nulab.com/cacoo/
https://online.visual-paradigm.com/diag ... -software/
https://www.lucidchart.com/pages/
https://drawio-app.com/product/
https://www.diagrams.net/ (its older sibling soon to be discontinued https://drawio-app.com/product/)
( Other links for diagrams.net - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3ieXjI7ZSk & https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mpF1i9sfEJ0 )
https://sourceforge.net/projects/dia-installer/
https://www.yworks.com/products/yed (and icons for yed --> https://github.com/danger89/yEd_cisco_network_icons )
https://www.libreoffice.org/discover/draw/
http://kilievich.com/fpinger/ - has a simple drawing program but not its main intent.

Znevna · Sun Jul 09, 2023 10:39 pm

Wrong forum @anav, they don't want any rules in here.
I wonder how are the bots supposed to know that they aren't allowed to spam....

anav · Sun Jul 09, 2023 11:52 pm

No its the right thread, if you are going to discuss half-assed measures, I m in the wrong thread. If you really want to improve forum threads and experience you might consider having an open mind.
The intent is to make using the forum a better experience, think bigger picture than just spam. To me any request without good information becomes a dental spamathon trying to extract truth/evidence/intent from posters. Why not make it better???

https://dontasktoask.com/

Amm0 · Mon Jul 10, 2023 6:39 pm

Wrong forum @anav, they don't want any rules in here.

What @anav describes is roughly same as Normis 2010's pined post, "Getting the most out of this forum":
viewtopic.php?t=45259

You can make all the rules you want, but question is always enforcement. e.g. does no diagram, bad title, shitty description, etc --> delete post?

anav · Mon Jul 10, 2023 7:16 pm

Clearly not working or good enough.
If every new forum member has to acknowledge reading what I recommended, and its always available to review, then
we should see the quality of posts go up and the resolution of issues much faster.

If a new poster ( dont expect a trained IT professional to do the same of course ) fails to provide the information we can simply state, please provide the information as requested when you joined.
If its a spam posting, easier for the forum mods to see and remove.

osc86 · Fri Jul 21, 2023 2:19 pm

nice to see that the amount of mods has been increased. btw..how is this one guy allowed to repeatedly spam the release topics with his self-caused wifi problems, that are obviously unrelated to current ros releases? His problems are 100% caused by user error and the unwillingsness to rtfm.

anav · Fri Jul 21, 2023 4:24 pm

Spam is different from stupidity?? Letting the parents breed (like cats ;-PP ) was the problem, mods can't fix that.

rextended · Fri Jul 21, 2023 4:28 pm

More moderators, but none with my experience,
they keep getting fooled...

viewtopic.php?t=177551#p1014254 EDIT: (now @16:16 is deleted)

[quote=Marki post_id=1014254 time=1689838584 user_id=218875]
Great work, pal[url=hstps://<SpamGPT>apk.com/<SpamGPT>-life-simulator-mod/][size=1]<SpamGPT>[/size][/url]. I appreciate you efforts.
[/quote]

They made more moderators, but nothing has changed:
as before there is often no moderator online when needed...

I know because I'm almost always there...

anav · Fri Jul 21, 2023 4:51 pm

I just wish you used kitty litter, always cleaning up after your messes, jajajaja

rextended · Fri Jul 21, 2023 4:58 pm

What?

anav · Fri Jul 21, 2023 6:07 pm

I meant to say supporting your posts, geez cant a guy drink in the morning!

krafg · Fri Jul 21, 2023 6:22 pm

I hope that with new mods this is getting good results. Congratulations.

Amm0 · Fri Jul 21, 2023 11:59 pm

Again not familiar with the BB backend... But maybe a "solution" to @rextended's concerns about mod timezones is to hide flagged posted until it's been reviewed by a moderator? Perhaps that's limited to folks above a certain post count?

rextended · Sat Jul 22, 2023 12:13 am

If it's the first post you must first be approved, otherwise no one sees them.
The problem is that moderators often get screwed.
They don't even check what's secretly written in the post, and they often approve ridiculous posts,
watch the case of those who register just to write "cool!" and then after a few weeks change the message to a spam one.

For example, try to reply with quote this message... and you find a https://hidden.message.inside ...

pe1chl · Sat Jul 22, 2023 12:18 pm

It also has happened several times to me that a new member posted a copy of a reply I wrote further above in the topic. Just a 100% copy.
They get approved as it seems a reasonable on-topic reply to the message, then they later change it to a spam.

One countermeasure is to turn off editing of messages after some time has elapsed (like an hour or so).
You can still edit your message when you see that typo or omission after hitting Submit, but you cannot abuse the forum by editing approved messages.
(it also prevents other problems in running discussions)

Buckeye · Sat Jul 22, 2023 9:54 pm

But preventing later editing of posts can be bad as well. An example is @anav's "how to" posts, and @pcunites vlan topic. it is nice for long time users to be able to edit the posts.

If it is easy to limit users that are new or have few posts, that is a good idea to disallow editing, because these are the ones that are most likely to be
potential spammers in noob's clothing.

rextended · Sun Jul 23, 2023 12:10 am

When I was the moderator, and I was the one approving posts, this never happened to me once...

Znevna · Sun Jul 23, 2023 9:28 am

Don't stress the forum users with rules, you'll get a ban or at least a ban warning.
But since there's no rule to prohibit editing posts and adding spam links, how should the bots know that it's not allowed?

rextended · Sun Jul 23, 2023 5:29 pm

Don't stress the forum users with rules

Well, you're doing it now...

you'll get a ban or at least a ban warning.

Are you tying to create a rule?
No one was talking about quoting…

Here we were talking about how to prevent spam from those who register only to spam the forum,
not to impose other rules (what are the others?) on the users of the forum.

Znevna · Sun Jul 23, 2023 5:39 pm

But spam isn't forbidden by current rules, because there are none.
Get it?

rextended · Mon Jul 24, 2023 1:29 am

But spam isn't forbidden by current rules, because there are none.
Get it?

Ah sorry, now I understand...
My bad.

rextended · Tue Jul 25, 2023 4:06 pm

viewtopic.php?p=1015026#p1015026

Thu Aug 10, 2023 1:23 am

viewtopic.php?p=1018049#p1017933

...
More moderators to moderate what?
They keep allowing topics like "no internet", "help me", "question". Seriously?
Most of the posts are garbage and spam, and by spam I mean opening other topics to post the same thing for the umpteenth time.
Moderators should delete those bulls–t, and direct people to ask in the right section and for topics that have the same problem.
For example, there are dozens of posts on DDNS of various kinds, which do the same thing, one gets lost even in the search, and I believe they open up new sections.
For me at this point the whole forum should be locked, moving it to a subsection and reopening the relevant and more detailed sections from the beginning,
for example scripting, api, vlan, ipsec, certificates, wireguard, BGP, lte, lora, etc.
all more detailed subsections, instead of generic things,
and a beta/rc section all for it's own.

Even the discourse of quotations, hundreds of useless posts are produced in the search,
because the search also searches in the quoted text, making a mess that disorients.

The problem is that if you remove post there is no place to direct poster to a better topic as there should be the new moderation started topic about removed old one and the "better" already existing one. Pointing to any post with gathered so called "good rules of thumb how to write posts" makes no sense as almost none follow them.
On the other hand there are a lot of complains on interfering with posts as moderators are not expected to "know better" than OPs. On the other hand non interfering with posts is assumed to be laziness or ignorance in the moderating "sport".

No way to satisfy all.

Thu Aug 10, 2023 1:31 am

yeah

it never rains to everyone's liking

PortalNET · Thu Aug 10, 2023 2:44 am

Hi guys is the forum Locked?

i am trying to access and reply on different topics, and all showing up LOCKED.

Thu Aug 10, 2023 6:34 am

Beta forum has been locked, yes.
viewtopic.php?t=198462

rextended · Wed Aug 16, 2023 5:44 pm

As far as I can see there are some moderators who still don't understand what spam is...

viewtopic.php?p=1016624#p1016624
viewtopic.php?p=1019312#p1019312
viewtopic.php?p=1019315#p1019315

Wed Aug 16, 2023 5:50 pm

thanks for reporting spam eliminated

rextended · Wed Aug 16, 2023 5:55 pm

thanks for reporting spam eliminated

very thanks!!!

Amm0 · Wed Aug 16, 2023 5:58 pm

I guess we're going to have lower their pay.

Is there really no plugin in the backend that can do this automatically??? Manually reviewing the tags in every message posted seem tedious.

dave864 · Sun Aug 27, 2023 2:13 pm

Late to the party, I don't visit often. However,

What I would like to reaffirm is that non paid mods need respect others and not let power do to their heads.

Holvoetn recently told people off in the cap wave2 thread.
viewtopic.php?t=170736

I'd say, unless a paid mk staffer objected, then mind your opinion. As noted by rextended, pelchel and a few others within this this thread - don't go policing what you think is appropriate and keep to the remit of spam deletion.

Sun Aug 27, 2023 2:46 pm

Late to the party, I don't visit often. However,

What I would like to reaffirm is that non paid mods need respect others and not let power do to their heads.

Holvoetn recently told people off in the cap wave2 thread.
viewtopic.php?t=170736

I'd say, unless a paid mk staffer objected, then mind your opinion. As noted by rextended, pelchel and a few others within this this thread - don't go policing what you think is appropriate and keep to the remit of spam deletion.

I just re-read that complete thread and only made 2 entries there.
If those are offending anyone, then nobody should be allowed to post anymore.
And this will become a very lovely place then ...

My view which obviously everyone is entitled to have.

Sun Aug 27, 2023 4:22 pm

Holvoetn recently told people off in the cap wave2 thread.

Please quote what you found objectionable about those two posts, then explain the problem, because I don't see how either of holvoetn's posts in that thread are offensive in the slightest, in whole or in part.

This gripe is so far off the mark I'm wondering if you've even got the correct user name.

anav · Sun Aug 27, 2023 4:47 pm

No kidding.
Post #1: To mkx,
@mkx
traditional capsman runs just fine in ROS7.
You simply can not mix legacy and ww2 radios. It's one or the other.
Don't install ww2-package = legacy radios only
Install ww2-package = ww2 radios only.

Post#2: To posters discussing non MT product ( openwrt )
Thin line, guys...

Nothing about these two posts is concerning or rude LOL.
Personally, I would have nuked any post discussing openwrt, vice a mention in passing, in an MT forum ;-P

Sun Aug 27, 2023 5:22 pm

i dont see any recent moderation logs on that topic, nor activity at all

rextended · Sun Aug 27, 2023 7:50 pm

i dont see any recent moderation logs on that topic, nor activity at all

I don't find anything wrong with it either, indeed he did well to point out that when he registered on the forum he agreed not to talk about other "competing" products...
But maybe he doesn't remember...
When people don't know what to write, they start writing crap...

pe1chl · Mon Aug 28, 2023 10:14 am

"openwrt" can hardly be called a "competing product", right?

rextended · Mon Aug 28, 2023 10:23 am

that's why the quotes

mkx · Mon Aug 28, 2023 10:52 am

"openwrt" can hardly be called a "competing product", right?

Why hardly? It's OpenWRT competing with ROS ... and commercial terms don't change this.

pe1chl · Mon Aug 28, 2023 2:19 pm

OpenWRT is software. MikroTik sells hardware, and includes software with it (RouterOS).
I do not see that as competiting product. It is good to point to OpenWRT when comparing features and developments, but nobody would select OpenWRT where they would otherwise select RouterOS. They are completely different things.

mkx · Mon Aug 28, 2023 2:43 pm

Like @holvoetn wrote in that thread: there's a thin line when discussing other products in MT's forums between OK and not-OK. Just because OpenWRT runs on MT's hardware it doesn't make it non-competing. When I last checked, MT was selling SW licenses as well. Another thin line is when discussion about 3rd party software (which runs on 2nd party's hardware) is steered towards mocking 2nd party for not providing the same functionality or service level.

woland · Mon Aug 28, 2023 4:52 pm

Openwrt is a free OS, which you may install on many devices produced by many vendors. No one earns money selling it, so it can´t compete with ROS.
https://openwrt.org/license
Also it´s target userbase is quite different from the ROS users.

Apart from all that: I don´t really see any harm for MT in discussing any software running on their hardware on their forums.

They have benefited massively from open source while developing ROS.
So banning discussions on an alternative open source OS which happens to be marginally useful for their products would not be very ethical or even clever for them.

Amm0 · Mon Aug 28, 2023 5:25 pm

As evidenced, @holvoetn was spot on, "thin line"... This seem like MT question...

A free product is a competitor from business POV. Now I doubt Mikrotik cares if you're buying hardware and opting out of any support - but IDK. Since Mikrotik is unlikely to fix OpenWRT "compatibility", most forum convo are going to end with someone getting stuck in trying since there are not open-source drivers or docs, etc., etc. for everything.

Mon Aug 28, 2023 11:19 pm

Grounting a little ... twice ... I wouldn't want it to be taken as power going to my head but .... guys, you are hijaking this topic a little bit

BTW ... do you imagine that football fan of e.g. Real Madrit FC starts topics on poor play strategy on e.g. Manchester City FC forum as they are not directly competing

dave864 · Tue Aug 29, 2023 6:29 am

I think my point was made quite well. Nobody from MT did anything about openWRT discussion. However, other people did.

What comes next is that, that person is now a mod and can now take matters in their own hands.

Interesting that some long term forum users think of the benefits of openWRT

Without hijacking the thread, openWRT is mainly used in deprecated hw, which the cap ac is.

Anyway, back to the discussion on who moderates the moderators!

Tue Aug 29, 2023 8:56 am

I think my point was made quite well. Nobody from MT did anything about openWRT discussion. However, other people did....who moderates the moderators

MT as admins could jump into any discussion at any time and intervene if they decide that such intervention is needed. And they do.

rextended · Sat Sep 02, 2023 6:08 pm

Last News: Now the moderators on MikroTik forum make their own rules, and without giving warnings, they suspend your account for spoilers, on different products.

Who was it that suspended my account?
An admin or moderator who without even warning suspended my account?

If that moderator can tell me where it is present in the regulation (which you accept by registering on the forum) that it is forbidden to spiler...

gabacho4 · Sat Sep 02, 2023 6:54 pm

Perhaps it was that you spammed the forums with like 6 separate SPOILER posts in short succession rather than put them all in one post?

Ironic that one of those who takes a heavier handed approach with other forum users now complains when heavy handed approaches are taken with him...

Amm0 · Sat Sep 02, 2023 7:08 pm

Perhaps it was that you spammed the forums with like 6 separate SPOILER posts in short succession rather than put them all in one post?

Theoretically different devices ... so different threads, to start a discussion about, potential, new devices... e.g. @rextended first thread in the "spoiler series" has 7K views for one device. You don't have to be formal moderator, to try to organize discussion.

Sat Sep 02, 2023 8:19 pm

Trying not too be a judge in a hood court but despite the views number, starting a lot of topics on not too much bringing theoretical discussions on nonexistent devices, don't you assume that someone could got angry that someone else is spoiling the market? You have a stock of devices and someone is announcing that soon there would be a lot of new, possibly better, devices and then your sales stop?

Paternot · Sat Sep 02, 2023 10:20 pm

This is ridiculous. I have my fair share of problems with Rextended - but suspend an account just because someone posted about a real future device? This is insane. If (IF, and he weren't) he was posting FUD or false information, it would be one thing.

But just posting about future devices? No, this is not reason to suspend someone. Anyone.

Or were you trolling someone else, @rextended?

krafg · Sat Sep 02, 2023 11:03 pm

If the suspension was due to spoilers, that's clear, but I agree that it's an exaggeration to suspend an account for this, since basically it's only reporting the models of future products, which although they say something, they don't It is not decisive enough to affect the products already on sale today. I just hope that Rextended doesn't have a problem with a moderator and that this is being used as an excuse to suspend your account.

Regards.

rextended · Sat Sep 02, 2023 11:27 pm

@BartoszP, so was it you?
Why don't you read in the logs who did it?
And then, instead of grouping it together, it deleted everything...

To @Paternot

Or were you trolling someone else, @rextended?

I didn't understand what you meant.
@gabacho4 he saw those posts, so I'm not trolling at all...

To @all
I could have been suspended for more arrogant posts towards other people, but certainly not for a spoiler that doesn't offend anyone...
Mostly ANYONE can read unencrypted text files inside the software...
However, this moderator should be removed from the ability to moderate, because suspending someone without the slightest notice,
for something that is NOT prohibited by the rules, and that does NOT offend anyone, is ridiculous...

Mostly EVERYONE except that moderator knows about my SPAM effort, and accusing me of spamming on the forum is really ridiculous....

And then if any of the admins didn't like it, they would have written it to me in the other spoilers (mods don't are admins),
so the moderator that banned me (without any warning) assumed the right to decide or not what could be posted...

Sun Sep 03, 2023 12:45 am

@BartoszP, so was it you?

My answer is ...

....MT as admins could jump into any discussion at any time and intervene if they decide that such intervention is needed. And they do.

rextended · Sun Sep 03, 2023 1:17 am

Can you answer in a less vague way?

Paternot · Sun Sep 03, 2023 2:43 am

@BartoszP, so was it you?
Why don't you read in the logs who did it?
And then, instead of grouping it together, it deleted everything...

To @Paternot
Or were you trolling someone else, @rextended?
I didn't understand what you meant.
@gabacho4 he saw those posts, so I'm not trolling at all...

To @all
I could have been suspended for more arrogant posts towards other people, but certainly not for a spoiler that doesn't offend anyone...
Mostly ANYONE can read unencrypted text files inside the software...
However, this moderator should be removed from the ability to moderate, because suspending someone without the slightest notice,
for something that is NOT prohibited by the rules, and that does NOT offend anyone, is ridiculous...

Mostly EVERYONE except that moderator knows about my SPAM effort, and accusing me of spamming on the forum is really ridiculous....

And then if any of the admins didn't like it, they would have written it to me in the other spoilers (mods don't are admins),
so the moderator that banned me (without any warning) assumed the right to decide or not what could be posted...

That was me trolling You.

Sometimes You are... a little caustic towards someone. I was just trolling, asking if the moderator hadn't suspended You because of that. I know he didn't - but I couldn't help it.

To be clear: I think is really unjustified suspend someone just because he posted something about a future model. It isn't a leak or a breach of DNA: it's just someone reporting what was found on the source.

To be honest, I think it is good for Mikrotik - just see how the "leaks" help NVidia, AMD and Intel launches. Does anyone here believe these "leaks" aren't marketing material?