I'm not sure where is the best spot to put this but I would like to do what I can to request that Mikrotik makes some 802.11ah compatible products
I currently use a 2.5mi (4km) wireless bridge running on a pair of RBLHG XL HP5 and based on the performance I get through trees I feel that similar links would benefit greatly from operating on a lower frequency.
I was sad when I found out that the RBMetal9HPn was discontinued and really hope to see a replacement product.
Re: 802.11ah products in the future?
........... problem fixer...........
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Re: 802.11ah products in the future?
Seriously, thanks for bringing this up....... Googling brought me to this article.... old but still useful.
https://www.link-labs.com/blog/future-o ... h-802-11ad
Concur, one would think with the popularity of iot devices and some of the products that MT is espousing, an accompanying.
low data rate, low power, low frequency device would be a natural fit.
From their own iot page - https://mikrotik.com/products/group/iot-products
They seem to have antennas for ah?
https://mikrotik.com/product/868_omni_antenna
They have Lora Products, are they not suitable..........asked out of ignorance not being a wisp or PTP savvy person??
https://mikrotik.com/product/knot_lr8
Something on Lora antennas!!
https://www.seeedstudio.com/blog/2021/0 ... a-antenna/
https://www.link-labs.com/blog/future-o ... h-802-11ad
Concur, one would think with the popularity of iot devices and some of the products that MT is espousing, an accompanying.
low data rate, low power, low frequency device would be a natural fit.
From their own iot page - https://mikrotik.com/products/group/iot-products
They seem to have antennas for ah?
https://mikrotik.com/product/868_omni_antenna
They have Lora Products, are they not suitable..........asked out of ignorance not being a wisp or PTP savvy person??
https://mikrotik.com/product/knot_lr8
Something on Lora antennas!!
https://www.seeedstudio.com/blog/2021/0 ... a-antenna/
Re: 802.11ah products in the future?
LoRA is great for low bandwidth operations, but it maxes out at about 30Kbps. I run my whole home internet connection through the wireless bridge I mentioned and would like to get a minimum of 20-30 Mbps
edit: I currently get 10-15Mbps reliably and sometimes if I leave some download(s) running overnight it'll peak as high as 20Mbps
edit: I currently get 10-15Mbps reliably and sometimes if I leave some download(s) running overnight it'll peak as high as 20Mbps
Re: 802.11ah products in the future?
Hi,
Would 2.4 ghz equipment not work better in your case rather then 5ghz?
Would 2.4 ghz equipment not work better in your case rather then 5ghz?
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metricmoose
newbie
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Re: 802.11ah products in the future?
I figured I'd revive this thread instead of making a new one...
I picked up one of these TX-AH-R900PNR module / TXW8301 chipset based 900MHz 802.11ah bridge kits from Aliexpress and I think there's some interesting possibilities here considering the huge gap in products available in the 900MHz band after Ubiquiti and Mikrotik discontinued their stuff, leaving only the very expensive Cambium 450i lineup. My post below goes pretty far into the weeds "reviewing" this cheap thing, but I wanted to see the capabilities of 802.11ah if Mikrotik were to develop something using this particular chipset or one like it, at least on the RF portion.
They're oddly difficult to search for on Aliexpress because some very key terms are completely missing from the product title and description in most listings. Usually searching for "wifi halow" will get you some results. Once you find one, the related items start showing more.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003303658166.html
The hardware is a bit odd. It seems like a half-hearted attempt to make something outdoor/weather sealed, though the antenna and power/ethernet cable portions don't seem very weather tight. It takes 12V in and has a 12V passthrough to a male plug, presumably so you could run one 12VDC line to power the bridge and pass it directly into an IP camera's 12VDC input.
I bought a kit of two and they came pre-paired out of the box. Plugging them into my LAN, they don't grab any IP from DHCP and don't appear to have a web interface.
One vendor of these products seems to provide some manuals (Chinese, mostly) and provided two utilities: netat.exe and netlog.exe. Both of these seem to work on a L2 basis from what I can tell. The netat program seems to allow you to send AT config commands (There's a chinese list of AT commands on the same download link). netlog will grab logs / stats send regularly out of the devices.
https://anjielo.com/en-ca/pages/download
Example netlog output:
Some of the things I picked out from there showed that it uses an 8MHz wide channel (Almost like the original Motorola Canopy 900Mhz!), has three non-overlapping channels available and has a PHY rate of 28,312 Kbps in its current mode.
From skimming a Google Translated version of the AT commands list, I found some other things of note:
-You can also select 1, 2, 4 and 8 MHz channel widths
-There are different modes: AP, Station, Broadcast, and repeater. It explains that the repeater mode can connect to an AP and act as an AP at the same time. Neat!
-There is WPA-PSK encryption, and a "Pairing" mode that sounds an awful lot like WPS.
-There's a roaming mode that allows for "fuzzy" matching of SSIDs. It gives an example of being able to connect to an SSID matching a word, but the last 3 characters are different (Huge_IC_AH001, Huge_IC_AH002, ect)
When I connected the "AP" device to a switch and my PC to to the "Station" end, it worked nearly instantly after being powered up. I ran an HTML5 speed test to a server on my LAN and got a whopping... 16-17 Mbps aggregate! Not great, not terrible. On Cambium 450i 900MHz, I see around 40 Mbps aggregate on a 7MHz channel at full modulation levels, but 450i is dual polarity and this 802.11ah chipset is single polarity. It's winter here, though once it warms up I'm tempted to try doing some range/speed tests using some yagi/panel antennas we have leftover from old PMP100 Canopy 900MHz.
I have a benchtop PSU, which I set to 12V and connected the AP unit. I monitored the current draw when running a speed test where the AP unit would be transmitting and my PSU showed about 0.8W during transmitting and around 0.5W when it was more idle. This isn't too bad for IoT and mobile devices, though maybe a bit high for battery powered IoT devices unless you had a small solar panel topping off the charge or if the radio is only switched on intermittently.
In Summary..
I think think the 802.11ah products will compliment Mikrotik's other IoT offerings but will also be an option for low-bandwidth internet access in situations where you need NLOS connections. It could be sold as a miniPCIe or m.2 card for use in the wAP, ltAP or Netmetal style case, as well as being available in the Groove or Netmetal form factor that's optimized for single polarity radios that need external antennas.
Some ideas for potential uses.
I picked up one of these TX-AH-R900PNR module / TXW8301 chipset based 900MHz 802.11ah bridge kits from Aliexpress and I think there's some interesting possibilities here considering the huge gap in products available in the 900MHz band after Ubiquiti and Mikrotik discontinued their stuff, leaving only the very expensive Cambium 450i lineup. My post below goes pretty far into the weeds "reviewing" this cheap thing, but I wanted to see the capabilities of 802.11ah if Mikrotik were to develop something using this particular chipset or one like it, at least on the RF portion.
They're oddly difficult to search for on Aliexpress because some very key terms are completely missing from the product title and description in most listings. Usually searching for "wifi halow" will get you some results. Once you find one, the related items start showing more.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003303658166.html
The hardware is a bit odd. It seems like a half-hearted attempt to make something outdoor/weather sealed, though the antenna and power/ethernet cable portions don't seem very weather tight. It takes 12V in and has a 12V passthrough to a male plug, presumably so you could run one 12VDC line to power the bridge and pass it directly into an IP camera's 12VDC input.
I bought a kit of two and they came pre-paired out of the box. Plugging them into my LAN, they don't grab any IP from DHCP and don't appear to have a web interface.
One vendor of these products seems to provide some manuals (Chinese, mostly) and provided two utilities: netat.exe and netlog.exe. Both of these seem to work on a L2 basis from what I can tell. The netat program seems to allow you to send AT config commands (There's a chinese list of AT commands on the same download link). netlog will grab logs / stats send regularly out of the devices.
https://anjielo.com/en-ca/pages/download
Example netlog output:
Code: Select all
LMAC STATUS:
[2023-02-23 17:47:06.406]:local: 06:bf:00:5c:6f:c0 AID= 1
[2023-02-23 17:47:06.413]:freq= 908.0 bw=8 chn=3 bgr=-87 iq=72:50:36:239 dc=0:8 tx=*3 dly=68:88:106 sif:rsp=0:0(0)
[2023-02-23 17:47:06.421]:chn: 908.0 916.0 924.0
[2023-02-23 17:47:06.461]:bgr: -88 -87 -88
[2023-02-23 17:47:06.506]:buf: free=94 tq=0 sq=0 ac=0:0:0:0 agg=0:0:0:0 statq=0 rxq=0 skb=0:0 rxb=120K
[2023-02-23 17:47:06.525]:irq: ac=150 bkn=0 bo(rts:frm)=0:144:0:0:5 to(rts:frm)=0:0 rx=281
[2023-02-23 17:47:06.532]:tx : cnt=172 dly=2:7ms mcast(bw:mcs)=2:0 agg=1(6063,179:0) data=26KB(34kbps) dur=48ms cca=1922 per=0% fail=0 drop=0
[2023-02-23 17:47:06.540]:rx : cnt=365 bus=1ms cts_bm=0:0 pks=210 data=191KB(254kbps) dur= 63ms err(phy:fcs)=0:0 ecode=0x0 cache_rxq= 0:0
[2023-02-23 17:47:06.556]:dbg: dtmd=0:0:0 stamap=0x0 flag=0x0 rxdp=0 kerr=0 mic=0 lerr=0 kick=0 csc=0 rst=0 ovf=0 nob=0 tsnr=40 rssi=-31 rxdut=79% txp=3 *rxg=5
[2023-02-23 17:47:06.571]:cca: *4s st12= 3:0 mid1224= 1:2:0:1 ed1224= 3:3:3:3 ch_bz= 129
[2023-02-23 17:47:06.588]:chip-temperature:30, vcc:3.32, vdd13b:1.30, vdd13c:1.31
[2023-02-23 17:47:06.598]:
STA0: 06:bf:00:6e:a6:90
[2023-02-23 17:47:06.606]:tx0: mcs=*7 bw=8MHz snr=40 cnt=146 agg=1 data=25KB(34kbps) dur=13ms dut=18% txq=0 cca=1893 ack=25KB(169) drop=0KB(0) per= 0% est_rate=28312kbps
[2023-02-23 17:47:06.625]:rx0: mcs=7 bw=8MHz evm(avg:std)=-30:1 rssi=-31 agc=7731 cnt=126 agg=1 data=191KB(254kbps) dur=63ms dut=81% fcsErr=0, freqDev=-355Hz adv_bw=0:0:0:100From skimming a Google Translated version of the AT commands list, I found some other things of note:
-You can also select 1, 2, 4 and 8 MHz channel widths
-There are different modes: AP, Station, Broadcast, and repeater. It explains that the repeater mode can connect to an AP and act as an AP at the same time. Neat!
-There is WPA-PSK encryption, and a "Pairing" mode that sounds an awful lot like WPS.
-There's a roaming mode that allows for "fuzzy" matching of SSIDs. It gives an example of being able to connect to an SSID matching a word, but the last 3 characters are different (Huge_IC_AH001, Huge_IC_AH002, ect)
When I connected the "AP" device to a switch and my PC to to the "Station" end, it worked nearly instantly after being powered up. I ran an HTML5 speed test to a server on my LAN and got a whopping... 16-17 Mbps aggregate! Not great, not terrible. On Cambium 450i 900MHz, I see around 40 Mbps aggregate on a 7MHz channel at full modulation levels, but 450i is dual polarity and this 802.11ah chipset is single polarity. It's winter here, though once it warms up I'm tempted to try doing some range/speed tests using some yagi/panel antennas we have leftover from old PMP100 Canopy 900MHz.
I have a benchtop PSU, which I set to 12V and connected the AP unit. I monitored the current draw when running a speed test where the AP unit would be transmitting and my PSU showed about 0.8W during transmitting and around 0.5W when it was more idle. This isn't too bad for IoT and mobile devices, though maybe a bit high for battery powered IoT devices unless you had a small solar panel topping off the charge or if the radio is only switched on intermittently.
In Summary..
I think think the 802.11ah products will compliment Mikrotik's other IoT offerings but will also be an option for low-bandwidth internet access in situations where you need NLOS connections. It could be sold as a miniPCIe or m.2 card for use in the wAP, ltAP or Netmetal style case, as well as being available in the Groove or Netmetal form factor that's optimized for single polarity radios that need external antennas.
Some ideas for potential uses.
- Monitoring remote devices / SCADA
- Low bandwidth video surveillance
- Backhauling digital two-way radio
- Backhauling WiFi APs for WiFi-based IoT devices, IoT gateways, or WiFi VoIP phones
- Nomadic applications, to supply an internet connection to in-vehicle network devices like a WiFi router in areas with poor cellular coverage (Example: Farm, construction site, mine site, campground, ect with internet provided by satellite).
- WISP internet access for NLOS internet customers that can't be served by 2.4GHz or 5GHz
- Extending internet to adjacent buildings with low bandwidth requirements and/or poor LOS, possibly even going from one indoor unit to an indoor unit in a different building at lower distances.
- LTE-like portable hotspots in an RV campground.
Re: 802.11ah products in the future?
Just follow this easy steps 
- Have Mikrotik wAP LR8 kit
- Remove the Lora Card
- Buy chinese wifi HaLow set for $100 (1*Rx and 2*TX in my case)
- Design a mini PCIe board that has LAN9514 USB to Network hub
- remove the hallow board from its enclosure and remove the RJ45 connector
- bypass the 5V to 3.3V powe supply on the hallow board
- use wires to solder the 4 LAN wires and 2 power lines
- put everything back in Wap enclosure
Now you have mikrotik HaLow + 2.4G Access point
...
Figure out he modules you received are 915MHz not 868MHz as specified for EU. Therefore are useless with any good antennas I have at home, to increase the range even further.
- Have Mikrotik wAP LR8 kit
- Remove the Lora Card
- Buy chinese wifi HaLow set for $100 (1*Rx and 2*TX in my case)
- Design a mini PCIe board that has LAN9514 USB to Network hub
- remove the hallow board from its enclosure and remove the RJ45 connector
- bypass the 5V to 3.3V powe supply on the hallow board
- use wires to solder the 4 LAN wires and 2 power lines
- put everything back in Wap enclosure
Now you have mikrotik HaLow + 2.4G Access point
...
Figure out he modules you received are 915MHz not 868MHz as specified for EU. Therefore are useless with any good antennas I have at home, to increase the range even further.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
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metricmoose
newbie
- Posts: 48
- Joined:
Re: 802.11ah products in the future?
Brilliant! I was wondering how I could get these HaLow bridges glued to a Mikrotik and that's a bit cleaner than I was considering! I haven't tried interfacing with the onboard serial (for sending the config AT commands) yet but I'd expect a TTL serial to USB adapter would allow for remote changes.Just follow this easy steps
- Have Mikrotik wAP LR8 kit
- Remove the Lora Card
- Buy chinese wifi HaLow set for $100 (1*Rx and 2*TX in my case)
- Design a mini PCIe board that has LAN9514 USB to Network hub
- remove the hallow board from its enclosure and remove the RJ45 connector
- bypass the 5V to 3.3V powe supply on the hallow board
- use wires to solder the 4 LAN wires and 2 power lines
- put everything back in Wap enclosure
Now you have mikrotik HaLow + 2.4G Access point
...
Figure out he modules you received are 915MHz not 868MHz as specified for EU. Therefore are useless with any good antennas I have at home, to increase the range even further.
After making a Youtube video about 802.11ah, it looks like there's a decent amount of interest in the standard. As I said in my last post, an official Mikrotik MiniPCIe / m.2 card for 802.11ah would be awesome for the wAP R. I submitted a feature request to Mikrotik for this as well.
https://youtu.be/qF0BHnmi9j8
Re: 802.11ah products in the future?
Mikrotik has very limited support for USB network cards, especially on MIPSBE devices with limited memory....
Brilliant! I was wondering how I could get these HaLow bridges glued to a Mikrotik and that's a bit cleaner than I was considering! I haven't tried interfacing with the onboard serial (for sending the config AT commands) yet but I'd expect a TTL serial to USB adapter would allow for remote changes.
After making a Youtube video about 802.11ah, it looks like there's a decent amount of interest in the standard. As I said in my last post, an official Mikrotik MiniPCIe / m.2 card for 802.11ah would be awesome for the wAP R. I submitted a feature request to Mikrotik for this as well.
https://youtu.be/qF0BHnmi9j8
But LAN9514 acts as network cars and just appears as additional interlace in win Box.
Re: 802.11ah products in the future?
I have almost forgot a step. /s
Remember to save the pcb antenna from lora wap enclosure to create a battery powered HaLow-to-WiFi gateway/access point
Use big enough enclosure to fit all the components and add a red LED to know when it is powered.
Remember to save the pcb antenna from lora wap enclosure to create a battery powered HaLow-to-WiFi gateway/access point
Use big enough enclosure to fit all the components and add a red LED to know when it is powered.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Re: 802.11ah products in the future?
...
One vendor of these products seems to provide some manuals (Chinese, mostly) and provided two utilities: netat.exe and netlog.exe. Both of these seem to work on a L2 basis from what I can tell. The netat program seems to allow you to send AT config commands (There's a chinese list of AT commands on the same download link). netlog will grab logs / stats send regularly out of the devices.
https://anjielo.com/en-ca/pages/download
Hi I'm trying to search download netat.exe and netlog.exe but not possible as the google drive detect as virus.
Are you able to share your copy ?