I've spent some time browsing Mikrotik router offerings in hope of finding something suitable for my use case, but I just can't find anything.

Here's my usage and sorry for not drawing any diagrams:

I have my ISP fiber connection in my living room. The ISP installed a locked Huawei router and they were kind enough to let me have ONE device (IP, not MAC) in the DMZ. That's good, because their router is fully locked and I can't even connect to it.

My home office is on the opposite end of the house and I have a cat5 cable running between the two rooms. I have a HAP ax3 there, it's the DMZ device, everything is great.

However, wifi in the living room is bad. Too many brick & mortar & reinforced concrete walls.

So I bought an Audience to cover the living room and the terrace and the kitchen. Wife approves, Audience is pretty. I have it piggybacked to my ax3 on the 2.4 GHz channel as station pseudobridge. But the most I can get is 50-ish Mbps.

The idea was to run ANOTHER cable over the attic parallel to the ISP-ax3 one to connect the Audience to my ax3, but then I thought - wait, why wouldn't I just buy another Mikrotik router with no wireless (should be cheap?), have that as the DMZ device, DHCP/DNS/CAPSMAN/whatever server, let's also use it for AdGuard on the entire network. I could reuse the existing cable for my ax3 and cable the Audience at a very short length to the new router. Heck, let's also get rid of Audience's power supply, it's a short cable, we can do POE. Also, one fine day I'm gonna buy some more living room electronics that have ethernet, and the Audience only has a couple of ports, so let's get a device with a few more ports because a cable is a cable.

That's when things went wrong.

hEX series - can't do containers, USB 2, only 16 MB of storage
L009 - that one would work, but would result in a divorce
RB4011 - can't do containers
RB5009 - too expensive, divorce, POE only on more expensive version

So... essentially I have to buy another ax3 and remove its antennas and disable wifi, right? (edit: wait, can't do that, antennas must be attached)

Another cable it is, then.

Why isn't there an ax3 with no wireless?

Three things.
1) You need antennas IF you use Wireless on the Ax3, in theory if you disable the radios you don't need the antennas at all BUT in practice it is wise to disable the radios AND put a couple of dummy loads on the antenna connectors (or - alternatively - very short rubber ducky ones turned horizontally), so that should the radios be accidentally enabled there won't be any problem, see:
viewtopic.php?t=205801
2) The WAF (or SOAP) is very relevant here, would the Ax lite be acceptable? (if it is actually fast enough for your use)
https://mikrotik.com/product/hap_ax_lite
See:
viewtopic.php?t=202248
3) About PoE powering the Audience through another Mikrotik device with PoE out port is not "mandatory", you can use *any* PoE power supply/injector with Mode B passsive output, since it will be a short distance a 24V one will be fine.

Another possible approach could be to re-use (with dummy loads) your existing Ax3 and get a L009 for the home office?

4011 can do containers: https://help.mikrotik.com/docs/display/ ... chitecture

@jaclaz it is ex-WAF here ;-)

4011 doesn't have USB, and it would be silly to run a container on the router itself and trash its internal storage. That's what external drives are for

I don't need more wireless in the living room... I have Audience for that. Wife thinks it's pretty and it stands prominently on a cupboard, though I keep getting complaints about "slow internet".

I just wanted a small box without any antennas that could either be hidden, or at least not look like the L009 monstrosity.

It's just incredibly puzzling that there exists a device such as the ax3, which is awesome and checks all the boxes, but Mikrotik didn't bother making a simple router that has the same capabilities, omits wireless, and sells for $100 / 100€.

L009 in my home office is sadly not an option, since it has poor wifi. I have a locked-down company laptop with a disabled ethernet port (they have actually glued the flap) so I need fast wifi...

So either I run another cable, or I buy another ax3 and tinker with dummy loads in order not to fry it. Honestly, that's a bit stupid

It can't be THAT hard to make and sell a router derived from the ax3... right? I'd buy it. I think a lot of people would.

The 4011iGS RM is without WiFi: https://mikrotik.com/product/rb4011igs_rm

I have a 4011 and no need to get me a 5009. Having plus 900MB of free memory but not using containers. Got a RaspberryPI for things like that.

Update: looked at the L009 RM and that is half the price of a 4011RM and have that one. No need to get in a divorce then.

First time I hear of a company locked down device with ethernet port glued (and wifi "open").
Cannot understand the rationale, and don't want to know what other restrictions they may have imposed in name of "security" or whatever.
The Ax2 seems like your only other possible alternative then.

So I bought an Audience to cover the living room and the terrace and the kitchen. Wife approves, Audience is pretty. I have it piggybacked to my ax3 on the 2.4 GHz channel as station pseudobridge. But the most I can get is 50-ish Mbps.

The Audience has 2 x 5Ghz radios – that's how it was designed to mesh – so you could use the 2nd WiFi interface to connect to the hAPax3. You want to pick channels different channels for Audiences' other non-bridged 5Ghz. But using 2Ghz to bridge on Audience seems like silly since it has 2 different 5Ghz radios but only one 2Ghz radio.

You can also buy some smaller stub antennas for hAPax3 if you don't need Wi-Fi on it. It's something like the L009, but with PoE and no Wi-Fi that's missing in the line up IMO.

I just wanted a small box without any antennas that could either be hidden, or at least not look like the L009 monstrosity.

Why would You care about the ugliness, if it will be hidden?

I'm not so sure about the L009. Using the rule of thumb to get "real world bad case scenario" looks like it would do about 400Mbps of routing. Throw in containers using CPU and I'm not so sure...
The RB5009 would ace it, but looks like it's too expensive.
The hAP ax3 looks like a good fit - but you have the antennas. Why not get one and hide it? Turn of the radio, fold the antennas (we can fold them to the center, can't we?) and hide it somewhere no one sees.

First time I hear of a company locked down device with ethernet port glued (and wifi "open").
Cannot understand the rationale, and don't want to know what other restrictions they may have imposed in name of "security" or whatever.

Yeah. I don't want to know either. It's forbidden to access the rest of my network, I don't trust it. They allowed it to connect to the company SSID when I'm on premises, another one that I provided at home, and my company-issued phone as a hotspot in case of emergency. They even glued the camera flap so it stays open all the time :facepalm:

The Audience has 2 x 5Ghz radios – that's how it was designed to mesh – so you could use the 2nd WiFi interface to connect to the hAPax3. You want to pick channels different channels for Audiences' other non-bridged 5Ghz. But using 2Ghz to bridge on Audience seems like silly since it has 2 different 5Ghz radios but only one 2Ghz radio.

Brick, mortar, concrete... can't get a 5 GHz link between the devices even when pumping radios on both to max and faking the country. That was the first thing I tried. I'd be happy if it worked

The hAP ax3 looks like a good fit - but you have the antennas. Why not get one and hide it? Turn of the radio, fold the antennas (we can fold them to the center, can't we?) and hide it somewhere no one sees.

I think that's what I will eventually do, unless I find time to fiddle around with cables and run another one. I wanted to do it anyway since my ISP ran a 5e cable and in a couple of years I think we'll move past 1 Gbps (another ISP already provides 2 as standard). Dunno. To hide the ax3 I have to remove some books and drill a hole in the cupboard, and I already did that for the ISP router. Though I don't know, maybe it would be acceptable in the living room, it's quite sleek and I can turn LEDs off. Have to ask.

I still think there's a major gap in the product lines. There's all sorts of obsolete routers that lost their value long, long before 2024 and there's the ax3 that hasn't been stripped of wireless and converted to a new kick-ass router.

I think that's what I will eventually do, unless I find time to fiddle around with cables and run another one. I wanted to do it anyway since my ISP ran a 5e cable and in a couple of years I think we'll move past 1 Gbps (another ISP already provides 2 as standard). Dunno. To hide the ax3 I have to remove some books and drill a hole in the cupboard, and I already did that for the ISP router. Though I don't know, maybe it would be acceptable in the living room, it's quite sleek and I can turn LEDs off. Have to ask.

I still think there's a major gap in the product lines. There's all sorts of obsolete routers that lost their value long, long before 2024 and there's the ax3 that hasn't been stripped of wireless and converted to a new kick-ass router.

CAT6 is and idea... will see you through a long time.
Well, our kick ass router, in the class, is the RB5009... Granted, it isn't the prettiest sight - but is all black, and it's LEDs don't play disco with your room.
How much less would it cost to make a non-wireless ax3? Would it make sense? Is there a market for it? I mean, for more serious routing we have the 5009 - it even works inside a rack. For a lighter load, the ax3 - with wireless! And a lot prettier than the 5009, I'll give You that.

Are you running the old wireless drivers on the audience or wifi-qcom-qc? I've found that the audience is VASTLY improved with the newer drivers and can easily reach 100Mbps in many locations of the house.

Fair enough re 5Ghz. Worth trying wifi-qcom-ac if you haven't yet on the Audience yet. But if you have concrete...a cable makes total sense.

While agree there are odd gaps in the line-up. I'm not convinced "wi-fi less" hAPax3 is what's missing.... e.g. it be the only "hAP" without wi-fi, and doesn't need to be same size if there is no Wi-Fi too... Now hAPax2 or similar with USB and no Wi-Fi... different story since that be closer to the hEX-S... there isn't anything in the form factor with USB and ARM64.

Hi everyone,

Well, as expected: wife says "no more toys in the living room, or your home office gets stuffed with 5 more plants and flowers EVERYWHERE and you have to water them and dust the leaves" Even installing the Audience gave me 2 plants.

I ordered a proper OFC CAT6 cable (Oren, if anyone's interested) and some keystone connectors. A cable over the attic it is. I'm going to connect the ISP router and my ax3 with the new cable (should be good for 2.5 Gbps one day), and use the ISP-provided 5e cable to connect the ax3 and the Audience.

Yes, the Audience is still on old drivers. I plan on upgrading to new drivers as soon as it's cabled to the ax3, because I really don't want to use my phone browser to configure it again (laptop glued ethernet port, PC cabled to ax3, configuration was a major pain).

And you can't change my mind about an ax3-derived (or ax2-derived) router missing from the product lineup The hEX lineup is old and basically obsolete in mid-2024 (should all be EOL-ed), and the L009 is weird and less powerful than the ax2-3. After the L009 we get into the "expensive stuff" territory. Now, if Mikrotik made some new hEX devices, that would be a different story, but I don't think they will.

Even installing the Audience gave me 2 plants.

My day needed this.

My day needed this.

This one got me LOLing

And you can't change my mind about an ax3-derived (or ax2-derived) router missing from the product lineup The hEX lineup is old and basically obsolete in mid-2024 (should all be EOL-ed), and the L009 is weird and less powerful than the ax2-3. After the L009 we get into the "expensive stuff" territory. Now, if Mikrotik made some new hEX devices, that would be a different story, but I don't think they will.

I don't think the hEX is obsolete. Well, not worldwide. There are several places where they are more than enough for the speeds sold, and the price is just "right". I can tell You that one hEX here costs almost 1/3 of minimum wage (we pay about 100% extra on hardware, due to taxes and imports). So, there is that.

I understand the "ax3 without wireless" argument - and indeed agree with the sentiment. What I'm questioning here is the cost difference (will it be significant?) and the market for it (will enough people buy it instead of his wireless brother?). Since we can disable wireless...

And I prefer my routers routing, and my APs "APeing". But is an interesting commercial problem.

By the by: About two weeks ago I managed to put my hands on an RB5009. Loving it, so far. My ISP got me one DFP-34X-2C2 SFP module, so the installation got quite clean. Still don't know how to set it to 2,5Gbps though. I'll open another topic about this later.

home office gets stuffed with 5 more plants and flowers EVERYWHERE and you have to water them and dust the leaves"

Given Wi-Fi's natural enemy is foliage, this makes sense. I guess explaining with more plants, you'll need more Wi-Fi, is not going to work.

I understand the "ax3 without wireless" argument - and indeed agree with the sentiment. What I'm questioning here is the cost difference (will it be significant?) and the market for it (will enough people buy it instead of his wireless brother?). Since we can disable wireless...

Regarding disabling wireless, I think there is some psychological barrier to shutting down capability deliberately compared with simply not using performance. There is a role in my network currently filled by an RB5009 which could be said to yawn and scratch itself while flipping packets with its other hand. I expect that a hAP ax2 would do the job but I would necessarily have to shut down the radio which somehow feels wrong (and besides, the RB5009 is there).

I agree with all you say though. The costs involved in manufacturing and managing an extra product through the supply chain go way beyond the difference in chip price, so the eventual price difference will be very small if realistically present at all without pricing up the more featured item. People will tend to think "I may as well get the better one, just in case...", so differentiation makes more sense at higher price points. We can think of the radio as a bonus feature.

If you need containers buy 5009 and dont cry...the 5009 is worth the price. Im using AX3 only for routing with WiFi turned off. But if you want containers buy 5009.

Regarding disabling wireless, I think there is some psychological barrier to shutting down capability deliberately compared with simply not using performance.

We're (kind of) engineers here, so psychological reasons should not be considered, right?

I'm using hAP ac2 (with the problem of having too small flash storage) which I purchased primarily for routing. Since 7.13 it doesn't even have any wireless drive package installed (so technically, I didn't really disable wireless ).

Plants I talked about earlier, just in case anyone thinks I wasn't being serious...

As you can see, there really IS more place for plants and flowers.



Edit...

The 5009 is 230€, the ax3 is 140€. My brain is somehow convinced that simply de-wirelessing the ax3 into a new product would drop the new product's price down to 100-ish €.

The 5009 is 230€, the ax3 is 140€. My brain is somehow convinced that simply de-wirelessing the ax3 into a new product would drop the new product's price down to 100-ish €.

Unlikely, if your answer is not the current ax2.

In manufacturing terms drop a few euros for the saved wireless card and antennae. Nothing else changed in the device but costs for marketing, stocking and differentiated production all went up. Sell the non-wireless ax3 for 129 and raise the current ax3 to 160.

Any other change to the design or form factor adds design and development costs to the above. Whether they can be said to get the answers right or wrong, product selection and positioning is no quick or easy business.

... for the saved wireless card ...

Not even that, in hAP ax2 and hAP ax3 wireless is part of SoC. With possible exception of power amplifier (if even that). So the manufacturing cost drop would only come from missing antennae. If those are procured from some Chinese fruit market, this would probably total at 0.95€ per device (on hAP ax2 antennae are internal, so probably even cheaper)

just saying.. this is a case where if mirkotik continued to produce the two powerline units, it would have been perfect. MK's exit from this range of products that could make a difference in the home is incomprehensible

It doesn't matter what your requirements are, the product line never matches it.
The TS apparently wants the perfect device for the least amount of money, or else he gets in a divorce.
But even without that problem, it is difficult to find the perfect device for everyone!
E.g. I would like a device that has WiFi (supported by new driver), USB, and a couple more ethernet ports, like 12..16.
There is nothing like that. CCR2004-16G-2S+PC is nice but no USB and no WiFi, RB5009 is nice, has USB and reasonable storage, but no WiFi and too few ports, RB4011 is nice but no USB and WiFi not supported by new driver, etc.
There is no "power-user home router". I use the RB4011 but I need a separate 8-port switch and cannot use the new WiFi driver, and have to use NFS when I want a little more storage.

guys... there are some products category...like router, switch, poe switch and you mix those categories to have HW wchich suits only you.

Buy AX3+ swtich thats it

Just make sure that switch isn't from the CRS354 variety, right?

4 years of port blocks randomly shutting down.