Mikrotik or others on AX wifi access point

gianry · Mon Aug 12, 2024 2:15 pm

Hi,
I dont'see any test, review, comparison with mikrotik access point . I see on the web a lot of other brand items.
On the used market there is no choice for mikrotik AP .. in my opinion it is a strange situation.

Are the mikrotk access point so good or not ?

thanks

erlinden · Mon Aug 12, 2024 2:51 pm

Yes!

infabo · Mon Aug 12, 2024 3:05 pm

Well, then you have to find out yourself. Own experience/testing >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> any reviews out there.

gianry · Mon Aug 12, 2024 3:13 pm

Well, then you have to find out yourself.

I'm just doing it...but I hoped to find some authoritative review

jaclaz · Mon Aug 12, 2024 4:08 pm

Reviews are a dime a dozen, authoritative ones are somewhat harder to find.

Following is a definitely non-authoritative one, for what it is worth.

Are the mikrotk access point so good or not ?

It depends.

Do you want to spend sleepless nights studying and experimenting because you believe (wrongly) that your home network needs an uber-complex setup including VRRP, VRFs, VLANs, etc,?
Or more simply you need something particular that other brands OS doesn't offer?
Go for Mikrotik.

Do you want to install an AP with 10-15 clicks, in a simple, normal, network?
Go for TP-LINK, netgear or the like.

From a pure "wi-fi coverage" viewpoint, there is not a definite answer, there are highly contrasting reports, from people very happy about their Mikrotiks to people that throw them in the bin and get another brand after having experienced every kind of limited connectivity via wi-fi.

Personally I would have no doubts in choosing a Mikrotik as a router or (managed) switch[1] (including using the rather powerful hap Ax2 and hap Ax3 as such), as an access point I would have some doubts[2].

The good thing with such Mikrotik devices is that they can be re-used in other setups, in different roles, so if you are looking for the best bang for the buck, Mikrotik is definitely a good choice.

[1] should I actually need one, I am very (maybe too much) old school, but for my simple needs (and slow speeds) el-cheapo, unmanaged ones have been enough for me.
[2] in my perverted mind an AP should be an AP, a simple AP, I don't need it to be also a router and a switch, with an overwhelmingly complex configuration, but as said some Mikrotik devices are very versatile, and can be re-used, unlike other brands "pure" AP's, still the latter ones are much easier to setup, JFYI:
viewtopic.php?t=208565

carl0s · Thu Aug 15, 2024 10:59 am

My favourite thing about capsman wifi? I can put in two APs, and have one of them control itself as well as the other one. i.e. the AP can also be the capsman controller. So I can put them in anywhere without having to change everything (router) or put in a separate controller (omada).

but I am still waiting for a Mikrotik AP that is OK to install. Something not too big, with real PoE, that can be fitted to the ceiling.

Also sometimes lately the configuration (if you want guest wifi on separate VLAN) is mind-bending, but I think that is straightening out finally.

gianry · Thu Aug 15, 2024 11:03 am

as an access point I would have some doubts[2].

what type of doubt ?

gianry · Thu Aug 15, 2024 11:05 am

I am still waiting for a Mikrotik AP that is OK to install.

why ? Is not cAp Ax so good ?

Thu Aug 15, 2024 1:39 pm

It's a good ap (for the installations I use it for) but it's freaking big !!

erlinden · Thu Aug 15, 2024 1:43 pm

Within days/weeks the wAP AX will be introduced. Which, if I understood correct, will be smaller.

Accorindg to @Normis:

wAP ax will be a very small device and is coming very very soon (question of days or weeks)

victorbayas · Thu Aug 15, 2024 6:33 pm

Hi,
I dont'see any test, review, comparison with mikrotik access point . I see on the web a lot of other brand items.
On the used market there is no choice for mikrotik AP .. in my opinion it is a strange situation.

Are the mikrotk access point so good or not ?

thanks

I currently have a MikroTik hAP AX3 for my small home office and it’s good enough for my needs, the routing/WireGuard performance is great but the WiFi is not better than the dead Belkin RT3200 it replaced (search OpenWrt OKD on Google). Testing with locally running OpenSpeedtest from my M3 Pro MacBook I get 900mbps down and 700mbps up over WiFi but from my iPhone 15 Pro I cannot get more than 700mbps even placing the phone on top of the router (these antennas are highly directional). Speeds on more realistic scenarios range between 450-600mbps.

With the Belkin I always had almost symmetrical 800-900mbps measured speed over WiFi on both devices near the router. My WAN is only 670mbps so not much of a big deal but my ISP offers up to 2gbps fiber (which would require all ports to be 2.5GbE not just the WAN to fully utilize the line).

Overall I’m happy with the device as it can fit next to the ISP box on a wall stand and MikroTik is a reliable networking vendor (had their hAP AC2 years ago), but I would probably look somewhere else if I needed higher performance over WiFi (they don’t have 4x4 160mhz hardware) just my two cents.

ToTheFull · Thu Aug 15, 2024 7:25 pm

It's a good ap (for the installations I use it for) but it's freaking big !!

My cAP ax idles @64c at this moment in-time which is BST, so making it smaller wasn't an option with auto (864 - 1800) MHz 4 core cpu.

@OP
Would I swap it for my old equipment... Hello No, I wouldn't even with it's quirks etc, the learning curve isn't that bad. I managed to get my hAP ax2
up and running in a few minutes even with the small printed lable and never having touched Mikrotik previously. Yes it does help to have a little bit of knowledge about basic networking and what lives where in a wifi enviroment. As far as I can see Mikrotik is no better or worse than other providers for the same money. At least you get free upgrades AND support. Don't be put off by people that are here just to moan short term never to be seen again.
I've had my ax gear for nearly two years and I'm still using it! My last point is if you don't like to tinker, go else-where. I'm a home user with an average size house and use case with only 1x hAP2 + cAP ax needed at this point. My only dissapointment is with etsi european regs limiting the upper frequencys to 25mw. In one word our Mikrotik experience is "good"

ToTheFull · Thu Aug 15, 2024 7:38 pm

[1] should I actually need one, I am very (maybe too much) old school, but for my simple needs (and slow speeds) el-cheapo, unmanaged ones have been enough for me.
[2] in my perverted mind an AP should be an AP, a simple AP, I don't need it to be also a router and a switch, with an overwhelmingly complex configuration, but as said some Mikrotik devices are very versatile, and can be re-used, unlike other brands "pure" AP's, still the latter ones are much easier to setup, JFYI:
viewtopic.php?t=208565

I'm happy in the knowledge that if my little hAP ax^2 was to spontaniously combust tomorrow, I could use my cAP ax with a switch and keep going

gianry · Fri Aug 16, 2024 10:23 am

I think one of the usefull feature to be introduced is 160 mhz width

ToTheFull · Fri Aug 16, 2024 1:02 pm

Give us one good reason for needing/using 160wide in an wifi6 Enviroment ?

gianry · Fri Aug 16, 2024 1:19 pm

a larger bandwidth ?!

ToTheFull · Fri Aug 16, 2024 2:13 pm

Thats a flex not a good reason.
So your gonna deply your fab 160wide on channel 50 or across the 10minute CaC range channel 114, so how well do you think thats gonna work out for you ? wifi 7 is the option you need. Don't forget to upgrade all your kit to minimum 2.5Gb...

gianry · Fri Aug 16, 2024 7:03 pm

Thats a flex not a good reason.

don't forget the Mu-Mimo function . if you have a larger bandwidth the various client should receive an higher amount of data

kravemir · Sat Aug 17, 2024 9:41 am

AFAIK, 80MHz channel width downgrades to 20MHz or 40MHz width in transmissions, if clients don't support 80MHz. And, not as 4x20MHz or 2x40MHz, but (temporarily) as a single 20MHz or 40MHz channel.

I managed to get 700Mbps (locally, iperf3 to 1Gbit cable connected server, single client) from hap ax³ at 80MHz, but I needed to upgrade network card of the laptop to AX210 (the AX200 would be enough, though), because the old card was not so good.

The 80MHz makes planning more complicated, and as wifi performance relies on cooperation, it might cause more harm than good. It's better to have more non overlapping 40MHz access points, than few 80MHz that interference with each other.

The 160MHz (80+80) would be the same issue.

Please, correct me if I'm wrong. And, please, attach some backing material / evidence to it. I like to study this, but fail to find good material.

gianry · Sat Aug 17, 2024 6:46 pm

I'm happy to use an access point at 160 mhz width and I can transfer files from laptop to my nas at least at 700 megabit now.

Asked for a mikrotik AP with same specs but I see that you necessarily want to advcate mikrotik's choices

infabo · Sun Aug 18, 2024 9:58 am

you may even reach 700mbit with 80mhz....

carl0s · Sun Aug 18, 2024 1:46 pm

I am still waiting for a Mikrotik AP that is OK to install.
why ? Is not cAp Ax so good ?

Far too big and ugly.

infabo · Sun Aug 18, 2024 3:33 pm

I guess it is the largest AX AP on the market. Even BE APs are slightly smaller.

gianry · Sun Aug 18, 2024 4:10 pm

you may even reach 700mbit with 80mhz....

yes but if client is in the same room of the AP.

gianry · Sun Aug 18, 2024 4:14 pm

Far too big and ugly.

it has a little high diameter ( 23 instead 20 cm) and a little taller ( 4,5 instead 3 cm )

gotsprings · Sun Aug 18, 2024 5:49 pm

After we lost enough money...

We went back to Ruckus and Cambium.

Cambium and Ruckus both had AX devices YEARS before Mikrotik. Particularly outdoors.

There are some serious apologists around here. Which I truly don't understand.

You can only hide behind... "But it's cheap" for so long. Particularly when you have clients seriously questioning your expertize, due to terrible performance.

ToTheFull · Sun Aug 18, 2024 7:02 pm

Lets get one thing crystal clear here. Would I install this AX gear in a Buisness Enviroment and charge good money for it....
hahahahahahahaha NO!
Would I shove it in an office that I own... YES
Thats like saying would I install Sage without a full phone support package... NO!

gotsprings · Sun Aug 18, 2024 8:24 pm

Lets get one thing crystal clear here. Would I install this AX gear in a Buisness Enviroment and charge good money for it....
hahahahahahahaha NO!
Would I shove it in an office that I own... YES
Thats like saying would I install Sage without a full phone support package... NO!

Install it in your house, and listen to your family complain.

That's enough to keep it out of businesses that actually rely on the network to make money.

infabo · Sun Aug 18, 2024 10:00 pm

I've seen Fortinet APs costing 1k each performing like mediocre 80$ crap. So, well. YMMV

ToTheFull · Mon Aug 19, 2024 9:13 am

Lets get one thing crystal clear here. Would I install this AX gear in a Buisness Enviroment and charge good money for it....
hahahahahahahaha NO!
Would I shove it in an office that I own... YES
Thats like saying would I install Sage without a full phone support package... NO!
Install it in your house, and listen to your family complain.

That's enough to keep it out of businesses that actually rely on the network to make money.

Now your just spouting garbage!

gigabyte091 · Mon Aug 19, 2024 9:36 am

Well... He's not... Let's be honest, Mikrotik WiFi is in my opinion years behind other vendors. Performance is mediocre for me. I have 2 cAP ax and one ax2 and i can't say I'm happy with it... Routing and switching yes, wireless im not so sure... Maybe ubiquiti or tplink...

infabo · Mon Aug 19, 2024 9:53 am

Mediocre may be already enough for family not complaining.

ToTheFull · Mon Aug 19, 2024 11:15 am

Mediocre may be already enough for family not complaining.

I didn't think you had any AX Gear ?

ToTheFull · Mon Aug 19, 2024 11:17 am

Well... He's not... Let's be honest, Mikrotik WiFi is in my opinion years behind other vendors. Performance is mediocre for me. I have 2 cAP ax and one ax2 and i can't say I'm happy with it... Routing and switching yes, wireless im not so sure... Maybe ubiquiti or tplink...

Call it what you want, It's more than I need. For the Money it meets my Expectations.
Edit: Let me just add to that, it also gives me full control of my networking Enviroment all in one package.

infabo · Mon Aug 19, 2024 11:37 am

Mediocre may be already enough for family not complaining.
I didn't think you had any AX Gear ?

No, I do not have any Mikrotik AX gear. I have only like two 802.11ax capable client devices at home - so I could not care less. And wifi-qcom-ac is pretty rock solid.

Mon Aug 19, 2024 1:18 pm

I am happy with the performance of my cAP ax's I can reach 800mbit with them from my M3 MacBook Pro.

However they are unnecessarily HUGE and unsightly.

gigabyte091 · Mon Aug 19, 2024 3:52 pm

My experience, frequent disconnects... I just see on my phone while watching YouTube back online message. Also my TV stick disconnects while watching. And that are just few examples. I live in countryside so no wifi networks except my. Every AP is on different channel. And yes, I get a lot of complaints about wifi not working again... Something I never heard on U6-Lite.

I got great deal on TP-Link EAP615 Wall version and I will give it a try.

ToTheFull · Mon Aug 19, 2024 4:56 pm

I get none of that...
I've just started a 10 hour stream on my pc over wifi, will post the stats when it's finished not dropping any frames!

sys/reso/print
                   uptime: 5d20h31m10s
                  version: 7.16rc2 (testing)
               build-time: 2024-08-13 07:05:09
         factory-software: 7.5
              free-memory: 410.8MiB
             total-memory: 1024.0MiB
                      cpu: ARM64
                cpu-count: 4
            cpu-frequency: 864MHz
                 cpu-load: 1%
           free-hdd-space: 77.8MiB
          total-hdd-space: 128.0MiB
  write-sect-since-reboot: 130278
         write-sect-total: 3702014
               bad-blocks: 0%
        architecture-name: arm64
               board-name: hAP ax^2
                 platform: MikroTik

Screenshot 2024-08-19 144824.png

Screenshot 2024-08-19 145010.png

Screenshot 2024-08-19 163544 - Copy.png

Can't be bothered to watch anymore, you get the idea after a few hours streaming

infabo · Mon Aug 19, 2024 5:02 pm

Well, Normis already confirmed there is some connection issue with specific Intel cards and the ROS Linux kernel. I would not be scared if this "Intel specific" problem is a broader issue. I mean, they use a Qualcomm driver and Cambium (highly praised by gigabyte09) is - I am pretty sure - not using self-developed wifi driver with super-powers either. And they also sell/use Qualcomm hardware inside their pricey APs.

It took Mikrotik too long to finally admit that there is really some big issue on their side. And that's basically one attitude I would wish that Mikrotik should get rid of: immediate denial. Please treat all reports seriously, it is not always malconfiguration.

gigabyte091 · Mon Aug 19, 2024 5:44 pm

I have quite a few IoT devices, WiFi cameras, PCs, laptops, tablet etc... And my experience is... Well, not good. I'm glad that it's working for you but for me... I don't know, it's not a good experience. Same setup was on U6-Lite and everything worked so much better.

I reverted to Mikrotik because well... I really love using Mikrotik but I think I made a mistake... I will try TP-Link to see how it's working.

infabo · Mon Aug 19, 2024 5:53 pm

Guys, if this CAP AX would not be so a) huge and b) ugly I would dive right into the AX pool. But there is nothing from Mikrotik to replace some neat looking CAP AC. Maybe WAP AX....

kravemir · Mon Aug 19, 2024 9:10 pm

I reverted to Mikrotik because well... I really love using Mikrotik but I think I made a mistake... I will try TP-Link to see how it's working.

I like configuration as code, that I can export/import, and have the full list of what was/is setup in one place, can diff and reason about.

I've only seen this with Cisco devices in school, but nowhere in SOHO/end-user-consumer (price) class of devices. I didn't work with many, though.

But, I often feel like other brands offer better stability and reliability, but at cost of being very limited regarding features, and missing configuration as code - human readable export/import.

gigabyte091 · Mon Aug 19, 2024 9:25 pm

Well, I can say that looking at TP-Link Omada software it seems packed with a lot of features. It even has CLI... Didn't explore that yet but I think it's possible to export configuration.

For me, and in my use case, stability is main selling point. And PPSK... Which Mikrotik still doesn't have...

infabo · Mon Aug 19, 2024 11:06 pm

access list entry with a passphrase and vlan-id is pretty much what other vendors advertise as PPSK?

gotsprings · Mon Aug 19, 2024 11:28 pm

access list entry with a passphrase and vlan-id is pretty much what other vendors advertise as PPSK?

Except that with EPSK... you can set the password and let devices connect.

In D-PSK you can set it up so the first devices to connect with that password owns it.

infabo · Mon Aug 19, 2024 11:40 pm

Is DPSK something proprietary by Ruckus?

gigabyte091 · Tue Aug 20, 2024 7:53 am

access list entry with a passphrase and vlan-id is pretty much what other vendors advertise as PPSK?

It's not... For access list to work you first need to create rule and add MAC address if I'm right. I don't want to do that. Here I have one SSID and I input different password for VLAN I want my device to connect.

infabo · Tue Aug 20, 2024 9:38 am

MAC address is not mandatory. Tried that recently. Created an entry with just passphrase and SSID and I was able to connect using that passphrase.

gigabyte091 · Tue Aug 20, 2024 9:54 am

You created entry with a single SSID for multiple VLANs without inputting MAC address first ?

gotsprings · Tue Aug 20, 2024 12:52 pm

MAC address is not mandatory. Tried that recently. Created an entry with just passphrase and SSID and I was able to connect using that passphrase.

Yeah that never worked before. You need to enter the MAC address that ties to that Access list PSK.

infabo · Tue Aug 20, 2024 1:12 pm

You created entry with a single SSID for multiple VLANs without inputting MAC address first ?

I can't test this as vlan assignment is unsupported on wifi-qcom-ac.

infabo · Tue Aug 20, 2024 1:16 pm

MAC address is not mandatory. Tried that recently. Created an entry with just passphrase and SSID and I was able to connect using that passphrase.
Yeah that never worked before. You need to enter the MAC address that ties to that Access list PSK.

/interface wifi access-list add action=accept passphrase=foobar12 ssid-regexp=ap-guest

And why can I connect using passphrase "foobar12" on the SSID ap-guest which has a completely different global passphare configured? A thing that never worked (for you) just worked for me?

And on wifi-qcom it should also make vlan assignment:

/interface wifi access-list add action=accept passphrase=vlan10 vlan-id=10 ssid-regexp=your-ssid
/interface wifi access-list add action=accept passphrase=vlan20 vlan-id=20 ssid-regexp=your-ssid

gigabyte091 · Tue Aug 20, 2024 1:17 pm

Don't need to test, it doesn't work... Whole point of PPSK is to have one SSID and multiple PPSK profiles with different passwords.

What VLAN get's assigned depends on password you input. On TP-Link you have PPSK with or without RADIUS for eg.

What Mikrotik have is overcomplicated workaround.

EDIT: Can you assing different VLAN ?

infabo · Tue Aug 20, 2024 1:23 pm

What Mikrotik have is overcomplicated workaround.

You are kidding or trolling, right?

https://community.tp-link.com/en/busine ... pic/620762

What Mikrotik offers via access lists is IMHO the same what is describes by TP-LINK as:

1. Configuration Guide for PPSK without RADIUS.

And this doesn't look "undercomplicated" either.

Mikrotik does not offer "autogeneration of PPSK". OK - accepted. Maybe it works with Radius - can't figure that out. And as far as I understood and found out, PPSK is not even a 802.11 standard at all. Ruckus, Cambium, TP-Link all brewing their own thingy. So does Mikrotik with their access list poor man's PPSK method.

gigabyte091 · Tue Aug 20, 2024 3:19 pm

Auto generation is key point here... You can do that with RADIUS, but you need to use WPA-EAP which IoT devices often don't support, you need MAC address as you have only one SSID and ONE password.

I believe you can do it without RADIUS on Mikrotik but still... You need MAC address of the device to assign correct VLAN to it. With other vendors you don't need that, you have multiple passwords for that.

ToTheFull · Tue Aug 20, 2024 4:15 pm

Don't you gotta have a controller for all the good functions though, fast roaming etc... sounds more complicated than it needs to be unless you move all the way to another product/products. Sounds like you want Professional Network Technology for a £5

gigabyte091 · Tue Aug 20, 2024 5:47 pm

No, primary thing for me is to have stable wifi and in the last year or so unfortunately Mikrotik is not be able to provide that and honestly cost of Mikrotik wireless is pretty much the same as TP-Link or Unifi and they work better than Mikrotik wireless and that's the fact.

Just as TP-Link or Unifi have their controllers, Mikrotik have CAPsMAN. Also Mikrotik have topic about their controller so one day we will have the same on Mikrotik.

Second day on TP-Link, not a single disconnect...

I will be more than happy to return to Mikrotik wireless, WHEN their wireless become competitive...

Switches and routers, great devices, there is no match regarding price, features and reliability but wireless... I have a feeling Mikrotik have wireless in their lineup just so they can say we have APs.

gotsprings · Tue Aug 20, 2024 7:02 pm

Yeah that never worked before. You need to enter the MAC address that ties to that Access list PSK.
Code: Select all
/interface wifi access-list add action=accept passphrase=foobar12 ssid-regexp=ap-guest
And why can I connect using passphrase "foobar12" on the SSID ap-guest which has a completely different global passphare configured? A thing that never worked (for you) just worked for me?

And on wifi-qcom it should also make vlan assignment:
Code: Select all
/interface wifi access-list add action=accept passphrase=vlan10 vlan-id=10 ssid-regexp=your-ssid
/interface wifi access-list add action=accept passphrase=vlan20 vlan-id=20 ssid-regexp=your-ssid

Wow... they finally got that working... too bad I had to change vendors 6 years ago.
Been deploying WiFi6 for like 4 years now.

Caps-man on the old drivers required the access list to have a mac address for PER DEVICE PASSWORDS to work.

kravemir · Tue Aug 20, 2024 11:16 pm

.
Second day on TP-Link, not a single disconnect...

I will be more than happy to return to Mikrotik wireless, WHEN their wireless become competitive...

Do you mean under stationary circumstances, or when moving around?

I'm having disconnects, instead of roaming, if I manage to get out of coverage of all AP(s), not just slowly fade away from original AP, and then enter area covered by other AP, but not by original AP anymore. I.e. when I move from one AP to other AP through a dead spot of all AP(s). But, that's due to bad positioning (I want to hide them, plus cable management limitations) of limited amount of AP(s) with combination of 15cm, 20cm, 30cm, and 45cm thick walls and concrete floor.

Otherwise, it's often stable and without issues.

One issue I had with "wifi", when I connected after long time, was actually caused by bad configuration of CAKE queue. LAN access worked flawlessly straight after connecting, but WAN rx/tx was throttled after connection. I discovered the issue by having just one device sitting idle, but connected to wifi, and when I working with it after long inactivity, it behaved as "if I just connected to the wifi". The CAKE queue interpreted inactivity as slow connection speed (autorate ingress), and throttled traffic. But, that's off topic,... the point is, that it wasn't wifi's fault.

What I feel is different - performance at range. It seems to me, that other vendors can cover bigger range (distance + wall signal attenuation) than MikroTik AP's, and connection is more stable even if device is too far from AP. But, that might be just subjective and false,.. I didn't do a thorough side by side testing in the same building, with the same positioning and everything,... But, I would say other vendors are slightly better, from 5% to 35% depending on circumstances. I would welcome some experiment results on this. Because, performance is affected a lot by positioning of antennas. Just making device to lie flat, instead of standing vertically made a big difference. Somewhere signal was boosted, somewhere lowered.

gigabyte091 · Wed Aug 21, 2024 6:11 am

Both.

Both APs are placed in the same spot and what I noticed with TP-Link is that roaming is working much more smoother and better. Going from one AP to another I don't even notice that device roamed to another AP.

With cAP ax it was always disconnect, switching to 5G then reconnection to AP. Some devices on cAP ax won't roam at all while on TP-Link they roam without a problem.

Stability is also different story. In my bathroom, which is only one brick wall away from AP Mikrotik struggles to maintain connection with frequent dropouts... So one brick wall, distance maybe 4 meters. TP-Link switch from 5 to 2.4GHz but signal bar is on full, no dropouts etc.

Outdoor use, my garage is maybe 10 meters from my house and I park my cars infront of the garage. With Mikrotik there is no way I get wifi. With TP-Link i get wifi and I can manage 50-60 Mbps DL and 30 Mbps UL. So range is greater, stability is better, roaming is working flawlesly.

Walking around the house signal from TP-Link is about 3-7 dBm better than Mikrotik. Have in mind that i bought cheapest TP-Link wifi6 AP.

Only thing that making me a problem is my laptop with AX200 wifi card. It keeps disconnecting after 5 min when using PPSK and keep asking for password. No other device do that, not my home laptop, not my wife's laptop nor any other device. That's something i have to research why is happening.

ivicask · Wed Aug 21, 2024 9:09 am

Both.

Both APs are placed in the same spot and what I noticed with TP-Link is that roaming is working much more smoother and better. Going from one AP to another I don't even notice that device roamed to another AP.

With cAP ax it was always disconnect, switching to 5G then reconnection to AP. Some devices on cAP ax won't roam at all while on TP-Link they roam without a problem.

Stability is also different story. In my bathroom, which is only one brick wall away from AP Mikrotik struggles to maintain connection with frequent dropouts... So one brick wall, distance maybe 4 meters. TP-Link switch from 5 to 2.4GHz but signal bar is on full, no dropouts etc.

Outdoor use, my garage is maybe 10 meters from my house and I park my cars infront of the garage. With Mikrotik there is no way I get wifi. With TP-Link i get wifi and I can manage 50-60 Mbps DL and 30 Mbps UL. So range is greater, stability is better, roaming is working flawlesly.

Walking around the house signal from TP-Link is about 3-7 dBm better than Mikrotik. Have in mind that i bought cheapest TP-Link wifi6 AP.

Only thing that making me a problem is my laptop with AX200 wifi card. It keeps disconnecting after 5 min when using PPSK and keep asking for password. No other device do that, not my home laptop, not my wife's laptop nor any other device. That's something i have to research why is happening.

Problem is Croatia regulatory, try setting country US and see 2x signal improvement..

kravemir · Wed Aug 21, 2024 9:52 am

Problem is Croatia regulatory, try setting country US and see 2x signal improvement..

I do wonder, if home devices from other brands actually follow regulatory limits,...

I once had been running hap ac² in super channel mode, in a flat on (technically) 3rd floor, and I was able to reach it from sidewalk on both sides of the building (penetrating multiple floors, and walls). Probably not the most neighbor friendly approach, though.

These consumer home devices don't publish any specs, nothing,... I wouldn't be surprised, if they violated laws.

gigabyte091 · Wed Aug 21, 2024 10:44 am

I believe that TP-Link is also set to Croatia because you need to specify country when setting up. Also devices I have are business models, not home models so I believe that they are following the rules.

infabo · Wed Aug 21, 2024 10:56 am

I was once comparing CAP AC vs Unifi U6+. Observing/Testing roaming with analiti. While on CAP AC my phone roamed (really roam, not disconnect and connect) perfectly to 2.4 once bad signal of 5ghz and roamed quite early back to 5ghz once in reach again. With the Unifi my phone was more sticky. I really had to move very wide away or hide the phone behind an obstacle to get it roamed to 2.4ghz. And when I went back near the AP it sticked at 2.4ghz or took ages to switch back to 5ghz again. So, while this is okayish in daily usage I at least have to say, that CAP AC did a better job in regards of roaming.
But don't forget: qcom-ac drivers are different story.

ivicask · Wed Aug 21, 2024 10:57 am

I believe that TP-Link is also set to Croatia because you need to specify country when setting up. Also devices I have are business models, not home models so I believe that they are following the rules.

I think regulatory is messed up on mikrotik, for example my home HAP AX3, i run 5220mhz on 5ghz and this is country difference.
Croatia 8 TX
United States 22 TX

Like what the hell is even 8 TX (From 28 TX max that router can do)? You can only guess how far that reaches...

gigabyte091 · Wed Aug 21, 2024 11:13 am

@infabo

I agree with you here, cAP ac is great device, had them before cAP ax and WiFi was good. Then I wanted to implement WiFi6 as all of my devices, except IoT and cameras, are WiFi6 capable and with greater internet speeds that matters now.

But Mikrotik's ax line gave me nothing but headaches... Well not Mikrotik but my wife because of the performance of Mikrotik's equipment.

I'm willing to revert to Mikrotik but first I think I will wait until ax line mature a little bit... I didn't even know something like PPSK is possible, and you showed that now.

@ivicask

Even if regulatory is messed up on Mikrotik, there shouldn't be any problem for 2.4 GHz to penetrate one internal brick wall in my opinion.

kravemir · Wed Aug 21, 2024 11:17 am

... Also devices I have are business models, not home models so I believe that they are following the rules.

Lobbying. MikroTik doesn't have lobbying power, as other brands do. So, maybe other brands can get away by violating the rules,... Just a conspiracy theory, though.

Maybe, MikroTik wifi chips/somethings are just really bad at weaker signals / longer ranges. It could even be the PCB design, and noise on PCB itself, that causes the harm... Or, whatever. Designing electronics is hard.

ivicask · Wed Aug 21, 2024 11:21 am

@infabo

I agree with you here, cAP ac is great device, had them before cAP ax and WiFi was good. Then I wanted to implement WiFi6 as all of my devices, except IoT and cameras, are WiFi6 capable and with greater internet speeds that matters now.

But Mikrotik's ax line gave me nothing but headaches... Well not Mikrotik but my wife because of the performance of Mikrotik's equipment.

I'm willing to revert to Mikrotik but first I think I will wait until ax line mature a little bit... I didn't even know something like PPSK is possible, and you showed that now.

@ivicask

Even if regulatory is messed up on Mikrotik, there shouldn't be any problem for 2.4 GHz to penetrate one internal brick wall in my opinion.

Maybe, just fyi.
Croatia is 20 and and US 30db for 2.4ghz.

Thats why there is so much different expiriences, some users from US drop here and say i have no issues, it have great coverage.

Ofcourse when you have 10db more then we here for example in Croatia...

kravemir · Wed Aug 21, 2024 11:24 am

Even if regulatory is messed up on Mikrotik, there shouldn't be any problem for 2.4 GHz to penetrate one internal brick wall in my opinion.

This is what's strange to me. Why one internal (15cm only?) brick wall causes so much trouble? You mentioned, even TP-Link roams to 2.4GHz from 5GHz.

I'm connected to hap ax³ on 5GHz, where signal is going through one floor and one brick wall, without issues.

Isn't there something in the wall? Maybe tons of electrical cables, wiring, or other perfectly grounded metal?

gigabyte091 · Wed Aug 21, 2024 11:30 am

Now I'm curious... I will check in settings if I can find what is TX power of new AP's because if TP-Link is not transmitting on same power levels then range test is not valid... I want to check stability with same power levels from both vendors.

Mikrotik wireless is still running as I want to confirm WiFi from TP-Link is stable in the long run... Few weeks for eg.

@kravemir

This is plain brick wall, there is a chimney, but no metal here, few electrical cables for central heating boiler and light and two copper pipes for the radiators.

TP-Link have setting to switch to 2.4 GHz earlier to maintain stability, that can be set when setting up new network I think but I left that default so maybe that's the reason it switches to 2.4 earlier.

infabo · Wed Aug 21, 2024 2:51 pm

Mikrotik wireless is weird indeed. Other vendors launch e.g. Wifi7 devices short after 802.11be went official. And these devices seem to work. Mikrotik on the other side catches the 802.11ax train very late, many years after. And even more than a year after launching their AX lineup they have major serious troubles and issues. Despite using vendor drivers. This is all very irritating.

gigabyte091 · Wed Aug 21, 2024 4:00 pm

It's indeed irritating... I don't like mixing vendors but right now I really don't have a choice...

Here are some photos, TX power from TP-Link and Mikrotik, power on both set to auto, country set to Croatia:

TP-Link 2.4 GHz:

TP-Link 2.4G TX.jpg

Mikrotik 2.4 GHz:

Mikrotik 2.4G TX.jpg

TP-Link 5 GHz:

TP-Link 5G TX.jpg

Mikrotik 5 GHz:

Mikrotik 5G TX.jpg

ToTheFull · Wed Aug 21, 2024 4:02 pm

lol, you must of heard me!
What power does it output UK 5745 ?

gigabyte091 · Wed Aug 21, 2024 4:13 pm

On Mikrotik or TP-Link ?

ToTheFull · Wed Aug 21, 2024 4:21 pm

TP-Link

gigabyte091 · Wed Aug 21, 2024 7:08 pm

Can't select that... Controller gave me only 4 channels: 36,40,44,48, 2.4 GHz have all channels, but 5 GHz have only 4 ?

ToTheFull · Wed Aug 21, 2024 9:11 pm

Can't select that... Controller gave me only 4 channels: 36,40,44,48, 2.4 GHz have all channels, but 5 GHz have only 4 ?

I just read this.
https://community.tp-link.com/en/home/f ... Id=1105420
Not sure if it applies to ax ?

gigabyte091 · Wed Aug 21, 2024 9:50 pm

I guess so, tried to unbind one of the AP from the controller just to check if maybe controller is limiting channels but no, same thing when they are working standalone.

APs that i have are EU models.

infabo · Wed Aug 21, 2024 10:05 pm

I assume you comparing CAP AX. Mikrotik shows TX Power excl. antenna gain. For comparison:

- 2ghz: 20 tplink vs 14+6 (antenna gain) Mikrotik
- 5ghz: 23 TP-Link vs 16+5.5 (antenna gain) Mikrotik

ToTheFull · Wed Aug 21, 2024 10:21 pm

I guess they can up the rx gain and not have to worry about any triggers with DFS etc.

gigabyte091 · Thu Aug 22, 2024 5:46 am

Did a little test with net analyzer. In bathroom I get -70 to -72 dBm on 5 GHz on Mikrotik. I've seen -69 for a short time.

On TP-Link that's -73 whole time.

I've played with settings on TP-Link and now phone stays connected to 5 GHz network with full speed... 3 out of 4 bars on WiFi. Speedtest is constant at about 83/50 Mbps.

Signal seems stronger on Mikrotik, so why does it keep disconnecting... How can TP-Link keep link up ?

victorbayas · Thu Aug 22, 2024 8:00 am

Did a little test with net analyzer. In bathroom I get -70 to -72 dBm on 5 GHz on Mikrotik. I've seen -69 for a short time.

On TP-Link that's -73 whole time.

I've played with settings on TP-Link and now phone stays connected to 5 GHz network with full speed... 3 out of 4 bars on WiFi. Speedtest is constant at about 83/50 Mbps.

Signal seems stronger on Mikrotik, so why does it keep disconnecting... How can TP-Link keep link up ?

MikroTik has 10 minute DHCP leases by default, change it to 1 day

gigabyte091 · Thu Aug 22, 2024 8:21 am

Don't worry, it's set at 1 day

infabo · Thu Aug 22, 2024 12:13 pm

Because Mikrotik qcom drivers are maybe not properly configured. IMHO it can't be the driver from Qualcomm, as these drivers are used all over the world by many vendors. But these drivers offer a huge bunch of config files where you can adjust everything. That's one source of error. Mikrotik has not yet found their stable config and are still in denial state. Second, their ancient and unsupported Linux Kernel 5.5 is apparently another problem they have to deal with, as Mikrotik already confirmed there are issues - at least in ROS 7.15 where they updated the wifi-qcom driver YOLO - despite multiple/many complaints and error reports in their 7.15 BETA and RC topics. They just ignored these reports and still release 7.15 stable. Audience of people experiencing wifi issues exploded. Now they have to deal with it.

infabo · Thu Aug 22, 2024 12:15 pm

Signal seems stronger on Mikrotik, so why does it keep disconnecting... How can TP-Link keep link up ?

What is logged at AP at time of disconnect? SA query timeout? Client disconnect?

gigabyte091 · Thu Aug 22, 2024 12:50 pm

Honestly I need to check, but always there is a mix of SA query timeout and client disconnects.

I will check.

ivicask · Thu Aug 22, 2024 12:58 pm

Honestly I need to check, but always there is a mix of SA query timeout and client disconnects.

I will check.

I had bunch of those also, disabled WPA3 and also disabled Managment protection in order to fix it.

Gurkut · Thu Aug 22, 2024 2:38 pm

I read the topic one by one. Although there are parts I don't understand and are beyond me, I would like to briefly state my opinion. Although I am not a pro about configuration, I am not very happy with the cAP XL ac, despite choosing the channel I randomly selected from the limited number of channels in wifi 2.4 and at least increasing the Decibel a little by selecting the USA as the country. I had previously sold the device's Cap ac and bought this one thinking it was better, but I could not like it. Maybe there are mistakes in my configuration. I don't know.

erlinden · Thu Aug 22, 2024 2:44 pm

What makes you think it is better and what makes you think it is not. Might be interesting to lower transmission power to get better performance.

Gurkut · Thu Aug 22, 2024 2:46 pm

What makes you think it is better and what makes you think it is not. Might be interesting to lower transmission power to get better performance.

As I mentioned in the article above, I really don't understand it very well, but maybe I can write the config details here as soon as possible and get ideas from you. Thank you.

erlinden · Thu Aug 22, 2024 2:49 pm

As I mentioned in the article above, I really don't understand it very well, but maybe I can write the config details here as soon as possible and get ideas from you. Thank you.

Sure, no problem. It would be really great to have the config of the cAP ac as well, just to compare.

gigabyte091 · Thu Aug 22, 2024 3:42 pm

Signal seems stronger on Mikrotik, so why does it keep disconnecting... How can TP-Link keep link up ?
What is logged at AP at time of disconnect? SA query timeout? Client disconnect?

Yea SA query timeouts and disconnects... As usual, just checked.

infabo · Thu Aug 22, 2024 3:52 pm

viewtopic.php?p=1086171#p1086171

Try setting: `security.management-protection=disabled`

This disables 802.11w and you won't see any SA query related entries anymore. Yeah, means you can't use WPA3. But until Mikrotik makes the timeout value configurable (as quite all other vendors have it) there is no other solution as disabling 802.11w. Mikrotik's default value seems to be too low. Or their retry-attempts value is too low as well. They have it hardcoded somewhere and we cant change it in case of timeouts.

gigabyte091 · Thu Aug 22, 2024 4:47 pm

Done, i disabled WPA3 and management protection. Now I will see if stability is better now. It's a shame WPA3 is disabled now...

If there is improvement I will test your version of PPSK you posted.

infabo · Thu Aug 22, 2024 5:18 pm

Well. 802.11w was released in 2009. Mikrotik's wireless package (to not be confused with wifi-qcom/wifi-com-ac) still has no support for it (in 2024). Instead, Mikrotik implemented some proprietary "management-protection" with some "management-protection-password" setting in their legacy drivers. Of course not compatible with 802.11w. Despite same name.

Mikrotik now realizes that wireless 802.11 evolution was no finished in 2003. Many things changed since then. They are still learning and exercising. We need to be patient. LOL

gianry · Thu Aug 22, 2024 6:06 pm

it seams I've put a good question . Now I'm not sure to buy a *tik AP instead an Ubiquiti U6+ or U7 pro.

I like the good feel to manage all the parameters of the network with RouterOs but it is important stability too.

gigabyte091 · Thu Aug 22, 2024 6:08 pm

Or... They just drop their wireless lineup and focus on routers and switches...

IMHO Mikrotik don't take their wireless products seriously... They are out just so they can say they have wireless...

They have drivers from the manufacturer... Why reinventing the wheel then ?

@gianry

Depends... Are you a masochist ? If yes buy Mikrotik, if no, U7 Pro is the way to futureproof your network. There is more and more wifi7 phones, and be wireless cards are available for laptops etc so why not...

More and more vendors push out wifi7 devices.

infabo · Thu Aug 22, 2024 6:41 pm

Wifi 7 AP from Zyxel has good reviews as well (Zyxel BE11000). Now adopting Wifi 7 (802.11be) and you're future proof at least for another 5 years.

I am an optimist and I still believe Mikrotik will launch Wifi 7 AP in 2024. Time will tell.

IMHO Mikrotik don't take their wireless products seriously...

It is more like a toxic relationship.

gigabyte091 · Thu Aug 22, 2024 7:15 pm

I am an optimist and I still believe Mikrotik will launch Wifi 7 AP in 2024. Time will tell.

Wanna bet they won't ?

Maybe it's better for Mikrotik to focus on ax devices for now...

infabo · Thu Aug 22, 2024 7:20 pm

The bet is already on

viewtopic.php?p=1085602#p1066467

anav · Thu Aug 22, 2024 7:32 pm

Great input from gigabyte and gotsprings.
I too am happier with the old capac vice the ax series.

The programming of the AX is not intuitive in terms of WIFI.
Since they still dont have a handle on it, I would handle WIFI
differently and have two checkboxes, capsman and roaming LOL.
Also config entry box to assign vlans to SSIDs.
YES, keep RoS for everything else but make WIFI stupid simple.
Look at another vendors menus and keep it simple.
Stop trying to pretend you know what you are doing in wifi.

I have had CONSISTENTLY okay results with TP APs.
No major issues and decent performance.
However, as per most folks, the ability to use an MT AP as an effective AP switch
or even wireguard endpoint is too cool.

gigabyte091 · Thu Aug 22, 2024 8:26 pm

@infabo

I knew I bet with someone... Wasn't sure if it was you

So, what's the bet ?

@anav

One more thing about TP-Link customer support that I need to add. I wrote on their forum about laptop with AX200 wireless card keep disconnecting when using PPSK. So just this device...
They answer me quickly, gave me some advices on what to check and when I answer back with the problem still here they opened a ticket for me. So another big plus for them.

I mean it's clear that this is not a TP-Link problem, instead problem with the drivers in Windows.

While it's a good thing that we have so many options I totally agree with you that wireless settings should be simpler. With so much options with ROS it's very easy to seriously degrade wifi performance by just one click.

But on topic, I must note that after disabling WPA3 and protected mgmt, my evening instagram scrolling in the bathroom wasn't interrupted

also phone managed to sustain great signal level.

ToTheFull · Thu Aug 22, 2024 8:28 pm

This made me laff!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_LWPK-IeQw

gigabyte091 · Thu Aug 22, 2024 8:37 pm

It's good to see that Mikrotik engineers have great sense of humor

Leave everything on auto and pray

ToTheFull · Thu Aug 22, 2024 10:46 pm

Did you see the new drivers for the Intel ax 200/210 range ?
https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en ... ators.html

gigabyte091 · Thu Aug 22, 2024 10:57 pm

Thanks, i will try them.

infabo · Fri Aug 23, 2024 10:38 am

This made me laff!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_LWPK-IeQw

why?

ToTheFull · Fri Aug 23, 2024 12:15 pm

It's the Video I << needed 2 years ago!

infabo · Fri Aug 23, 2024 12:19 pm

I am not laffing

ToTheFull · Fri Aug 23, 2024 12:28 pm

Did you fall out of bed the wrong side today ?
It's a great Video that was needed a long time ago, if Mikrotik wants to target another type of audience they need to support that in a simple way.

infabo · Fri Aug 23, 2024 12:34 pm

That's what I would ask you why you were "laffing" about their completely normal and helpful wifi beginner video. I see no reason to lough at all.

ToTheFull · Fri Aug 23, 2024 12:56 pm

Mate, I ain't gonna sit here all day explaining the irony of it to you. You either accept my reasoning or you don't.

infabo · Fri Aug 23, 2024 12:59 pm

All good. But I agree and want to add: they should print an QR code on their quick setup sheets they ship with wireless devices. Directing users to that video.

ToTheFull · Fri Aug 23, 2024 1:26 pm

Thats a very valid argument for the printout. But it saddens me to see people with differing points on the AX gear when I have a great experience overall.

gigabyte091 · Fri Aug 23, 2024 3:15 pm

@infabo you should make a tutorial on ACL and Mikrotik version of PPSK so it's not lost here in this topic.

Does it work with capsman ? There shouldn't be a problem as far as I can see...

ToTheFull · Fri Aug 23, 2024 3:22 pm

Did you see the new drivers for the Intel ax 200/210 range ?
https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en ... ators.html

Thanks, i will try them.

Seems to work ok for me anyway.

/tool/bandwidth-test address=192.168.88.10 direction=both protocol=udp local-tx-speed=400M remote-tx-speed=400M user=admin  password=    
                status: running
              duration: 41s
            tx-current: 19.6Mbps
  tx-10-second-average: 19.6Mbps
      tx-total-average: 19.5Mbps
            rx-current: 401.1Mbps
  rx-10-second-average: 400.2Mbps
      rx-total-average: 400.0Mbps
          lost-packets: 0
           random-data: no
             direction: both
               tx-size: 1500
               rx-size: 1500
      connection-count: 20
        local-cpu-load: 47%
       remote-cpu-load: 3%

Edit:
Why does the Terminal tell lies ?

infabo · Fri Aug 23, 2024 3:31 pm

@infabo you should make a tutorial on ACL and Mikrotik version of PPSK so it's not lost here in this topic.

Does it work with capsman ? There shouldn't be a problem as far as I can see...

Actually tested it on capsman. But unfortunately can't test the VLAN assignment using "vlan-id" because this is not supported on wifi-qcom-ac. Do not have wifi-qcom device to test.

gigabyte091 · Fri Aug 23, 2024 10:43 pm

I think i have one hap ax lite lte somehwhere, i will test it. If it works that is great.

Mikrotik wifi is now rock solid... So WPA3 and PM is the issue here...

ToTheFull · Fri Aug 23, 2024 11:04 pm

I think i have one hap ax lite lte somehwhere, i will test it. If it works that is great.

Mikrotik wifi is now rock solid... So WPA3 and PM is the issue here...

I've been using WPA2 only for about 12months now. I also use a seperate SSID with FT dissabled for my older gear!

gotsprings · Sat Aug 24, 2024 12:06 am

Inspired me to try it. Using caps-man

Used a cap AC as the radio and 5009 as the router

Made and access control entry for a separate password and enabled it.

The dropped everyone using the standard password on the network.

Added a second rule with the main password for the network.

NO CHANGE

Went back to the first rule and added a mac address.

The one device with that password and mac... connects.
Everything else connects with the main password.

This looks like the same old issue. The first rule in the access control list wins.

infabo · Sat Aug 24, 2024 12:18 am

Made and access control entry for a separate password and enabled it.

The dropped everyone using the standard password on the network.

....

This looks like the same old issue. The first rule in the access control list wins.

Uff, indeed. Did not test it that way. Well, first matching access list rule wins. This is a hard fact and Mikrotik won't change this ever. Looks like that no simple PPSK possible. The need for a MAC address is ridiculous, makes custom passphrase obsolete. It is a pity.

gotsprings · Sat Aug 24, 2024 11:52 am

Infabo,

I was hoping I was wrong.

Unplugging the cap AC and banishing it back to the "use it for comparison" box.

Mikrotik wireless remains on the "do not quote list", for us.

gigabyte091 · Sat Aug 24, 2024 12:27 pm

That's a shame... I hoped that it will work... Why would ACL accept only first rule ? What is with the other rules ? I didn't play with ACL at all but shouldn't that work more or less like a Firewall rules ?

infabo · Sat Aug 24, 2024 4:01 pm

"The rules are checked in the order they appear in the list. Only management actions specified in the first matching rule are applied to each connection."
https://help.mikrotik.com/docs/display/ ... connection.

But I would assume this works - but it doesn't:

/interface wifi access-list
add action=accept passphrase=foobar12 ssid-regexp=ap-guest
add action=accept passphrase=bazbar12 ssid-regexp=ap-guest

I can connect with passphrase foobar12. But not with bazbar12.

jaclaz · Sat Aug 24, 2024 4:59 pm

"The rules are checked in the order they appear in the list. Only management actions specified in the first matching rule are applied to each connection."

Maybe the relevant statement is a few lines after that:

Just make sure that the specific client doesn't get matched by a more generic access list rule first.

which - translated from Mikrotikish - seems to mean something like:
Once a match is made, the specific action in that line is executed and that's it.

Since you have as filtering only the ssif-regexp, all matching (i.e. anyone connecting to ap-guest) will need to use foobar12 as passphrase.

infabo · Sat Aug 24, 2024 6:57 pm

conditions are IMHO AND combined. ssid-regex+passphrase must match both. Dunno what's wrong with their logic. Maybe passphrase is not a filtering parameter. So the only remaining filter param is ssid-regexp and first rule wins.

jaclaz · Sat Aug 24, 2024 7:08 pm

conditions are IMHO AND combined. ssid-regex+passphrase must match both. Dunno what's wrong with their logic. Maybe passphrase is not a filtering parameter. So the only remaining filter param is ssid-regexp and first rule wins.

Yes, passphrase is not listed among the "filtering parameters":

Filtering parameters
Parameter
interface
mac-address
mac-address-mask
signal-range
ssid-regexp
time

it is among the "action parameters"

Action parameters
Parameter
allow-signal-out-of-range
action
client-isolation
passphrase
radius-accounting
vlan-id

gigabyte091 · Sun Aug 25, 2024 6:39 am

So, in theory, Mikrotik could move passphrase to the filtering parameters and then it would work ?

I really hope that Mikrotik get their wireless together... Without PPSK WPA3 on TP-Link is working without a problem here...

OTOH I did a few tests now when Mikrotik is set on WPA2. Noticed that devices roams more easily. Signal strength is on par with TP-Link so honestly wireless is behaving the same in comparison to TP-Link.

infabo · Sun Aug 25, 2024 9:11 am

As already known: Mikrotik hardware is good. It is all an software issue. Mikrotik needs to listen and stop treating their wifi like a stepchild.

ToTheFull · Sun Aug 25, 2024 9:56 am

Do you not think they are taking advice from their distributers and trainers ?

gigabyte091 · Sun Aug 25, 2024 10:27 am

Well i would say not... They are not taking advices from them and anybody else on this forum...

Hardware is good but what's the point if software isn't.

infabo · Sun Aug 25, 2024 11:19 am

I think distributors don't really get feedback of issues. Customers either complain here in the forum or over at Mikrotik support. I did once contact the distributor where I buy the hardware because of an hardware issue. But that is basically it. Someone calling his distributor to report SQ query timeout issues? Cant imagine that scenario THB.

And trainers are in my opinion mostly not giving a fuck on Mikrotik wireless. They learned it is flaky. One would get tired reporting wireless issues for a decade and not having them fixed. So professionals choose other vendor for APs and have their inner peace restored.

There are a bunch of enthusiasts wanting Mikrotik wireless/wifi to improve. But this little group has no lobby. And Mikrotik is sometimes acting like a deny-all firewall. You have to drill hard until they admit there is an issue.

gigabyte091 · Sun Aug 25, 2024 3:20 pm

So... Lot of potential, but they need to decide. Either they make their wireless lineup competitive or simply drop wireless altogether and focus only on router/switches.

mozerd · Sun Aug 25, 2024 3:23 pm

Are the mikrotk access point so good or not ?

MikroTik wireless is OK not great but OK

If you want better performance and a great WiFi experience then consider
Ubiquiti U6 Pro or the U7 Pro
TP-Link EAP610 or the EAP783

infabo · Sun Aug 25, 2024 3:24 pm

@gigabyte
Indeed. Seems like they don't have enough resources to excel in both segments.

robmaltsystems · Sun Aug 25, 2024 4:18 pm

as an access point I would have some doubts[2].

what type of doubt ?

Wi-Fi strength on 5GHz seems to be the biggest doubt. For years, I used my Virgin Media Wi-Fi 6 Superhub 3. Never had to meddle or worry about Wi-Fi strength in the house. Installed a hAP ax2 next to it and Wi-Fi signal simply isn't as good. It falls back to 2.4GHz anywhere except in very close proximity. Now this isn't a big problem for me as Wi-Fi 4 is perfectly fine for what we do but it has caused me to pause installing cAP ax devices with clients.

gotsprings · Sun Aug 25, 2024 4:39 pm

GOTSPRINGS... in my opinion mostly not giving a fuck on Mikrotik wireless. He learned it is flaky. Got tired reporting wireless issues for a decade and not having them fixed. So professionals choose other vendor for APs and have their inner peace restored.

There are a bunch of enthusiasts wanting Mikrotik wireless/wifi to improve. But this little group has no lobby. And Mikrotik is sometimes acting like a deny-all firewall. You have to drill hard until they admit there is an issue.

Fixed it for you...

Remember how I beat them with that "We have reproduced the issue and will get back to you IF or WHEN we have a fix." email

That email is form 6+ years ago.

While i tried to trouble shoot it with Mikrotik... they would send me one suggestion a MONTH. I had to come here and really bitch on the Forums to get them to take a serious look at the issue. Once I got that email, I started removing Tik radios. Most of the time for money out of pocket. But I lost a lot of clients over delivering such a flakey system.

gigabyte091 · Sun Aug 25, 2024 7:52 pm

But you are professional...

So imagine some poor soul that just bought ax2 or ax3 as their new wireless router.

He read online that Mikrotik is reputable vendor that make great router and switches and have no reason to doubt their wireless.

Oh boy are they in for a nasty suprise when shit hits the fan... And when i'm looking at topics on the forum... I'm not wrong...

And most of them are just basic user with probably no background in networking and they are probably used to simple GUI. Not complexity of ROS.

Someone will say okay, but they have quickset... Well yes, but first time they need to change something that isn't possible using quickset who knows what will happen. And without this forum lot of them would probably return their devices as they wouldn't know how to fix the problem.

Mikrotik NEED to start listening to forum users... Lot of them here are professionals which have good advices for them.

My advice, stop adding features, resolve known issues and wireless... Right now with ROS you are doing one step forward and a two steps back...

infabo · Sun Aug 25, 2024 9:27 pm

My impression of hottest topics in last 6 months:

- confusion of legacy capsman and wifi Capsman
- serious troubles with AX devices, mostly disconnects and SQ query timeouts, FT working poorly, poor signal or throughput on HAP AX3 especially
- confusion of legacy wireless with new wifi

gigabyte091 · Mon Aug 26, 2024 3:49 pm

It would be nice to hear Mikrotik side here.

infabo · Mon Aug 26, 2024 4:11 pm

PS: with "sa query timeout issues" I don't mean the sometimes appearing log items. It is normal to see some timeouts because of different reasons (client out of range, etc.). I rather mean these excessive and log pulluting sa query timeouts that can't be normal. one example here: viewtopic.php?p=1072960

ToTheFull · Mon Aug 26, 2024 4:19 pm

I get the Odd 1 here and there as to be expected, but I also have good stability as well and fair signal that I expect from my equipment.

robmaltsystems · Mon Aug 26, 2024 5:01 pm

My impression of hottest topics in last 6 months:

- confusion of legacy capsman and wifi Capsman
- serious troubles with AX devices, mostly disconnects and SQ query timeouts, FT working poorly, poor signal or throughput on HAP AX3 especially
- confusion of legacy wireless with new wifi

Yup I agree and I've had all the above pain points with upgrading to ROS v7 with clients the hAP ax2 issues at home.

robmaltsystems · Mon Aug 26, 2024 5:08 pm

I get SA Query timeout with my personal Lenovo laptop. It's sat in exactly the same position as it's always done and my hAP ax2 is sat right next to my existing Virgin Media hub (which is usually in modem mode). The laptop can take a couple of minutes to establish a stable 2.4GHz connection when coming out of sleep. It first tries 5GHz (SSID for networks is same), connects, gets thrown off with SA Query timeout. Tries again. Eventually gives up and connects at 2.4GHz.

Put pretty much any other Wi-Fi 5 access point in the same place and laptop connects perfectly at 5GHz.

The SQ Query timeouts could be very much a red herring, i.e. expected because of lower signal strengths. This could be the worse case scenario where due to lower signal strengths, the laptop is right on the cusp between 5GHz and 2.4GHz.

BTW - this laptop has a Realtek Wi-Fi 6 network adapter. I've bought a Wi-Fi 6 USB adapter and that always connects at 5GHz.

I've spent far too long on this already but will, if I get some spare time, do some more tests. I've usually got a selection of access points (usually TP-Link or UBNT) lying around.

robmaltsystems · Mon Aug 26, 2024 5:36 pm

Will move this onto the SA Query timeout thread but just done a real quick test of signal strengths. My Lenovo laptop with Realtek 8822CE adapter has a receive signal of ~-50dB (as seen by the laptop) but the hAP ax2 is only receiving a signal of ~-70dB which is borderline poor and probably explains why SQ Query timeouts are been triggered.

gigabyte091 · Mon Aug 26, 2024 5:49 pm

Good test

After few days now wireless is rock solid for me. Can't observe excessive SA query timeouts, only ones related to poor signal.

Also my phone roams more easily now.

ToTheFull · Mon Aug 26, 2024 6:05 pm

I'm connected to my cAP ax upstairs....
Laptop rec signal -69
cAP ax rec signal -71

05.png

I should mention, I never have SA query timeouts for that ax200 card

victorbayas · Mon Aug 26, 2024 6:12 pm

Today, I unset the frequency setting on my hAP AX3 router from channel 100 (which is clear in my environment). It automatically switched to channel 149, and now the WiFi performance is fantastic. The radio is reporting a TX power of 28 dBm, up from the previous 20 dBm. I'm beginning to think that these high gain antennas need high TX power to perform effectively.

Also made sure the antennas were tightly screwed to the board and aiming at 45 degrees like this.

2024-08-26 10.09.49.jpg

ToTheFull · Mon Aug 26, 2024 6:19 pm

Today, I unset the frequency setting on my hAP AX3 router from channel 100 (which is clear in my environment). It automatically switched to channel 149, and now the WiFi performance is fantastic. The radio is reporting a TX power of 28 dBm, up from the previous 20 dBm. I'm beginning to think that these high gain antennas need high TX power to perform effectively.

Also made sure the antennas were tightly screwed to the board and aiming at 45 degrees like this.

2024-08-26 10.09.49.jpg

Great, I hope you don't have any Neighbours!

jaclaz · Mon Aug 26, 2024 6:20 pm

Also made sure the antennas were tightly screwed to the board and aiming at 45 degrees like this.

You have strange degrees where you live.

Here the angles in the photo would be between 60 and 72. (they would fit either an hexagon or a pentagon placed on top of your Ax3)

ToTheFull · Mon Aug 26, 2024 6:28 pm

Will move this onto the SA Query timeout thread but just done a real quick test of signal strengths. My Lenovo laptop with Realtek 8822CE adapter has a receive signal of ~-50dB (as seen by the laptop) but the hAP ax2 is only receiving a signal of ~-70dB which is borderline poor and probably explains why SQ Query timeouts are been triggered.

I can't understand for the life of me why you don't chuck an ax card in your laptop.

ToTheFull · Mon Aug 26, 2024 6:43 pm

Also made sure the antennas were tightly screwed to the board and aiming at 45 degrees like this.
You have strange degrees where you live.
Here the angles in the photo would be between 60 and 72. (they would fit either an hexagon or a pentagon placed on top of your Ax3)

lol....

pic.JPG

My posh Laptop antennas do the lock thing, the correct angle!

victorbayas · Mon Aug 26, 2024 7:18 pm

Today, I unset the frequency setting on my hAP AX3 router from channel 100 (which is clear in my environment). It automatically switched to channel 149, and now the WiFi performance is fantastic. The radio is reporting a TX power of 28 dBm, up from the previous 20 dBm. I'm beginning to think that these high gain antennas need high TX power to perform effectively.

Also made sure the antennas were tightly screwed to the board and aiming at 45 degrees like this.

2024-08-26 10.09.49.jpg
Great, I hope you don't have any Neighbours!

gigabyte091 · Mon Aug 26, 2024 8:17 pm

Will move this onto the SA Query timeout thread but just done a real quick test of signal strengths. My Lenovo laptop with Realtek 8822CE adapter has a receive signal of ~-50dB (as seen by the laptop) but the hAP ax2 is only receiving a signal of ~-70dB which is borderline poor and probably explains why SQ Query timeouts are been triggered.
I can't understand for the life of me why you don't chuck an ax card in your laptop.

Agree, first thing I did when I bought my laptop was buying AX200 and replace original wireless card. Never had any problems with that. Great card

ToTheFull · Mon Aug 26, 2024 8:30 pm

You can then also choose Preferred Band and Roaming aggressiveness, as well as power levels and boost etc.
Oh and I forgot to mention regular driver updates!

infabo · Mon Aug 26, 2024 8:57 pm

Yes, AX200 is pretty decent. Have one in notebook and one in desktop. Both work well.

kravemir · Mon Aug 26, 2024 9:51 pm

why ? Is not cAp Ax so good ?
Far too big and ugly.

How good reach of cAP ax is?

If it is put in a small-ish corridor, people won't notice how big and ugly it is, as nobody is really looking up in corridors.

Will it reach adjacent rooms nicely? Speaking of 15cm inner walls, and 30cm load bearing walls. Penetrated perpendicularly to diagonally, e.g. from 90° to 30°.

And, will it reach one floor bellow?

victorbayas · Tue Aug 27, 2024 4:57 am

Did a quick speedtest with the AX3 on channel 149 and these are the results I measured being near the device

M3 Pro MacBook

Screenshot 2024-08-26 at 8.42.09 PM.png

iPhone 15 Pro

IMG_4884.png

Registration table

Screenshot 2024-08-26 at 8.49.20 PM.png

For some mysterious reason I'm unable to get constant 1200mbps TX rate on DFS channels with the iPhone despite having less interference. My old Belkin RT3200 (which died) had no problems maintaining high TX rates with low TX power.

PD: I wish Mikrotik had band steering so I could stop having two SSIDs per VLAN

gigabyte091 · Tue Aug 27, 2024 5:29 am

They do have band steering

victorbayas · Tue Aug 27, 2024 5:57 am

They do have band steering

Indeed it's working

Screenshot 2024-08-26 at 9.55.53 PM.png

robmaltsystems · Thu Aug 29, 2024 12:54 am

Will move this onto the SA Query timeout thread but just done a real quick test of signal strengths. My Lenovo laptop with Realtek 8822CE adapter has a receive signal of ~-50dB (as seen by the laptop) but the hAP ax2 is only receiving a signal of ~-70dB which is borderline poor and probably explains why SQ Query timeouts are been triggered.
I can't understand for the life of me why you don't chuck an ax card in your laptop.

Because I'm using it to investigate whether the AX devices are ready for use with other residential clients. I've already got a Wi-Fi 6 USB adapter but I can't expect everyone else to upgrade. I rarely use my laptop at home so this is purely experimental and not a direct pain point. I've got a wired connect to the the laptop anyway.

infabo · Wed Sep 25, 2024 2:30 pm

@gotsprings

PPSK finally available in 7.17beta1

https://help.mikrotik.com/docs/display/ ... properties

gotsprings · Wed Sep 25, 2024 4:25 pm

@gotsprings

PPSK finally available in 7.17beta1

https://help.mikrotik.com/docs/display/ ... properties

So a decade later... It's in beta.

Kind of like ACv2

I really don't care about DPSK and EPSK as much as I care about a stable radio. One that I put in and forget about for years at a time. Mikrotik taught me to NEVER EVER TRUST ANYONE and particularly not Mikrotik when it comes to radio performance.

So after years of trying to beat Mikrotik wireless into something it's not... I only pull it out to be an also ran. "You wanna see why I don't use Mikrotik wireless... Allow me to illustrate."

infabo · Wed Sep 25, 2024 4:47 pm

multi-passphrase is not supported for the WPA3-PSK authentication type.

But according to google research none of the competition has PPSK for WPA3-PSK either. Seems to be impossible.

gotsprings · Wed Sep 25, 2024 5:52 pm

multi-passphrase is not supported for the WPA3-PSK authentication type.
But according to google research none of the competition has PPSK for WPA3-PSK either. Seems to be impossible.

Ruckus and Cambium said that a while ago. But the Beta from Cambium has it. Have not checked the Ruckus as all the firmwares of the last 2 years have bugs that require me to downgrade.

gigabyte091 · Wed Sep 25, 2024 9:00 pm

Finally PPSK...

anav · Wed Sep 25, 2024 9:53 pm

I think i have one hap ax lite lte somehwhere, i will test it. If it works that is great.

Mikrotik wifi is now rock solid... So WPA3 and PM is the issue here...

I have an ax3 setup as a router and AP in the basement, its pretty decent with WPA2 only.....
However the capac also in the basement is at times is better LOL.

gigabyte091 · Thu Sep 26, 2024 6:57 am

I don't know why but i have a feeling that ax2 provides better wifi coverage than ax3.

I agree with you, capac with wifiwave2 drivers works great. I have two of them in our office and they work great.

But with WPA2 only cap ax at my house have excellent performance as well. And they are both just placed behind TV or on a box beside my PC, so placement is not ideal at all...

victorbayas · Thu Sep 26, 2024 4:06 pm

I don't know why but i have a feeling that ax2 provides better wifi coverage than ax3.

Yeah, these high gain antennas are too directional compared to internal ones.

infabo · Fri Oct 18, 2024 5:14 pm

After we lost enough money...

We went back to Ruckus and Cambium.

Cambium and Ruckus both had AX devices YEARS before Mikrotik. Particularly outdoors.

There are some serious apologists around here. Which I truly don't understand.

You can only hide behind... "But it's cheap" for so long. Particularly when you have clients seriously questioning your expertize, due to terrible performance.

Yeah, I am just doing a research on access points. Looking at their device firmware release notes, reviews and forum. Found things like:

- https://community.cambiumnetworks.com/t ... ting/91197

I set up a single AP in my LAB to test with no interference and the problem is so bad, I have to keep plugging my Mikrotik AP back in, just to get to the internet to complain about this.

This was Feb/2023. When "Cambium had AX YEARS before Mikrotik!111!!!"

- https://community.cambiumnetworks.com/t ... wifi/77432

Someone in Apr/2021 saying:

Customer was reluctant to put in AX as a)they don’t have ax compatible devices b)not willing to do beta testing of early firmware for ax ap’s which is understandable.

Seems like it isn't all shiny and perfect over there.

Haha. The story always has two sides.

ToTheFull · Fri Oct 18, 2024 11:39 pm

But with WPA2 only cap ax at my house have excellent performance as well. And they are both just placed behind TV or on a box beside my PC, so placement is not ideal at all...

We both got our cAP ax's at the same time more or less, and I thought you like me knew there was problems and always has been problems using WPA3
So why did you all of a sudden forget ?
Anyway moving on... Has anyone tried WPA3 on 7.17 beta4 yet ?

gigabyte091 · Sat Oct 19, 2024 6:42 am

Honestly I always thought that Mikrotik will solve the problem with WPA3 by now... But now with PPSK it doesn't matter in my case as I can't use WPA3 with PPSK.

erlinden · Sat Oct 19, 2024 12:47 pm

Anyway moving on... Has anyone tried WPA3 on 7.17 beta4 yet ?

Running 7.17 beta4, mixed WPA2/WPA3 on dual cAP AX and wAP ac using multiple VLAN's. Windows/Linux/Android/iOS devices. Seems pretty stable. Disconnection caused by too weak signal. Installed yesterday, still have to do some testing.

ToTheFull · Sat Oct 19, 2024 2:22 pm

Anyway moving on... Has anyone tried WPA3 on 7.17 beta4 yet ?
Running 7.17 beta4, mixed WPA2/WPA3 on dual cAP AX and wAP ac using multiple VLAN's. Windows/Linux/Android/iOS devices. Seems pretty stable. Disconnection caused by too weak signal. Installed yesterday, still have to do some testing.

I jumped onboard early today, i've not altered anything yet. But in other news I've noticed a huge uptick in DNS performance using DoH/Adlist setup.
Big deal for our slower devices using Browsers, it's about on par with a seperate Pi-Hole with DoH setup on rpi4 8gb.