Newsletter #121 | October 2024

Thu Oct 24, 2024 2:29 pm

Read our latest newsletter and learn more about:

- the hEX refresh;
- wAP ax;
- Chateau PRO ax with an exceptionally powerful 4x4 MIMO and a matching CPU;
- MikroTik and Ampere collaboration plans;
- your chance to become a MikroTik trainer;
- Linus Tech Tips using a CRS518 to boot all their computers off of a single server;
- #MikroTips, tricks, Spotted In The Wild submissions, and more!

https://mt.lv/news121

erlinden · Thu Oct 24, 2024 2:35 pm

Yes! wAP AX, finally!!

itimo01 · Thu Oct 24, 2024 3:17 pm

I wonder why the Chateau PRO ax doesn't feature a 2.5G Port. The hap ax3 has one.
SOC Limits?

nemoforum · Thu Oct 24, 2024 3:42 pm

What is the maximum channel width for Chateau PRO at 5GHz? 4x4 160 MHz? 2x2 160 MHz, 4x4 80 MHz?

ksteink · Thu Oct 24, 2024 4:13 pm

Thanks for sharing. I am looking to see more interesting products such as:

- More options on Switches CRS3xx/CRS5xx that has PoE+ and PoE++ and 2.5 Gbps and 5 Gbps
- More options on RBs with 2.5 Gbps and 10 Gbps. In the low end the option is the RB5009 and in the high end we have CCR2004 but there is nothing in the middle. And non of the CCR has mGig ports.
- Any insights on Wi-Fi7? Other competitors are already launching Wi-Fi 7 and I see Mikrotik still catching up with Wi-Fi6.
- High Availability like VSS?

infabo · Thu Oct 24, 2024 5:53 pm

And now I'm looking forward to the true successor of the "cAP ac". If a "wAP ax" can be fitted into the "wAP ac" casing, I would be thrilled if there could be a wifi6 AP in the "cAP ac" casing. In my opinion, the "cAP ax" is more like the successor of the "cAP ac XL". Thank you, MikroTik!

itimo01 · Thu Oct 24, 2024 6:02 pm

What is the maximum channel width for Chateau PRO at 5GHz? 4x4 160 MHz? 2x2 160 MHz, 4x4 80 MHz?

According to the product page it's 80mhz (AX3600) but I'm not sure if that's correct.

OpenWRTs spec page says that the same Wi-Fi chip in the Xiaomi AX3600 only supports either 4x4 80mhz or 2x2 160mhz.
So might be 80mhz only

pe1chl · Thu Oct 24, 2024 10:20 pm

The "hEX refresh" does not have IPsec test results, unlike its predecessor the RB750Gr3 which had quite impressive IPsec performance for its price and position in the product line.
Does this mean "hEX refresh" does not have IPsec acceleration, and the "twice the performance for the same price" claim is only for plain routing and not for IPsec?

Paternot · Fri Oct 25, 2024 12:30 am

Mikrotik and Ampere... now things got serious. This is something I'm looking forward to.

Paternot · Fri Oct 25, 2024 12:35 am

Does this mean "hEX refresh" does not have IPsec acceleration, and the "twice the performance for the same price" claim is only for plain routing and not for IPsec?

An interesting question. But the don't have block diagram too. I'd give about one week, in order for them to finish the page.

Not that its an excuse: the page should be done from day one. Still...

mkx · Fri Oct 25, 2024 8:53 am

The "hEX refresh" does not have IPsec test results, ...

Not to downplay the importance of publishing IPsec results ... but lately they are becoming increasingly irrelevant. Most people are moving towards wireguard (and alikes), which AFAIK doesn't use IPsec HW offload.

Fri Oct 25, 2024 9:15 am

"What is the maximum channel width for Chateau PRO at 5GHz? 4x4 160 MHz? 2x2 160 MHz, 4x4 80 MHz?"

It is 4x4 80 MHz

massinia · Fri Oct 25, 2024 10:09 am

I wonder why the Chateau PRO ax doesn't feature a 2.5G Port. The hap ax3 has one.
SOC Limits?

I've wondered about that myself.
A real shame... I would have bought it right away.

nemoforum · Fri Oct 25, 2024 10:39 am

"What is the maximum channel width for Chateau PRO at 5GHz? 4x4 160 MHz? 2x2 160 MHz, 4x4 80 MHz?" - It is 4x4 80 MHz

2x2 160 MHz is not supported, right?

rushlife · Fri Oct 25, 2024 11:30 am

Please, pretty please :-)....
I really need some wsap hw UPDATE !!!
I would really appreciate some device hw update, ideally with the same form factor (wsap) but with AX wireless and (at least ) 1Gbps eth ports.

thobias · Fri Oct 25, 2024 11:31 am

New hex sadly missing speaker

pe1chl · Fri Oct 25, 2024 11:55 am

The "hEX refresh" does not have IPsec test results, ...

Not to downplay the importance of publishing IPsec results ... but lately they are becoming increasingly irrelevant. Most people are moving towards wireguard (and alikes), which AFAIK doesn't use IPsec HW offload.

Maybe you and most people in your environment? We are using IPsec. It may be a pain, but at least it is a standard.
Also, when indeed most people use wireguard, they could add wireguard performance figures.
But those are not in the datasheet either...

Fri Oct 25, 2024 1:14 pm

don't have block diagram too

Other open questions:

The capabilities of this new switch chip; a doc search for “EN7562CT” turns up nothing. Can it do bridge VLAN filtering, for instance?
The “E” prefix isn’t documented in the naming guide. I’d want that explanation to cover the reason why the 2024 hEX wasn’t called the RB750Gr4. Is “RB” going to be restricted to naked PCBAs in the future?

elbob2002 · Fri Oct 25, 2024 2:40 pm

Block Diagram is available:

https://cdn.mikrotik.com/web-assets/pro ... 241016.png

Tl;DR - ether1 direct to SoC. ether 2 to 5 to switch chip

sid5632 · Fri Oct 25, 2024 2:52 pm

Cunningly, that doesn't tell you the Switch-CPU bandwidth.

Fri Oct 25, 2024 3:10 pm

Block Diagram is available

Another strange PoE choice: the PoE-in port is off the switch, a sensible choice for a router-class device, but we then have to ask which ISP modems provide PoE input power?

Stretching for a use case, I suppose you could use this to create semi-airgapped small LANs off a big PoE core switch, as in a hotel where you want a small number of wired ports at the work table, without letting each room's users see devices in other rooms.

Hmmm…

pe1chl · Fri Oct 25, 2024 6:44 pm

Stretching for a use case, I suppose you could use this to create semi-airgapped small LANs off a big PoE core switch, as in a hotel where you want a small number of wired ports at the work table, without letting each room's users see devices in other rooms.

THAT is their use case! Pop-and-Mom ISPs (commonly WISP) that provide internet to a building and wire up the whole thing using ethernet with PoE powering. There are several switch products for that use case as well.
It is not for professionals, or it would use PoE standards (802.3AF/AT), it is just an "as cheap as possible" solution.
But hey, as long as it doesn't bother other uses of the device... Implementation is just a couple of diodes.

pe1chl · Fri Oct 25, 2024 6:46 pm

Block Diagram is available:

It was added after the above remarks were made... but IPsec test results not yet, maybe they appear next week.

Amm0 · Fri Oct 25, 2024 7:57 pm

Block Diagram is available
Another strange PoE choice: the PoE-in port is off the switch, a sensible choice for a router-class device, but we then have to ask which ISP modems provide PoE input power?

Stretching for a use case,

You can use an always use PoE injector between ISP and ether1. i.e. if the gateway/ONT/etc is a basement/closet/outside/etc... but LAN ports needed elsewhere.

Sit75 · Fri Oct 25, 2024 9:03 pm

I would more appreciate "be" device than introduction of IPQ-8072.

Sit75 · Fri Oct 25, 2024 9:24 pm

I wonder why the Chateau PRO ax doesn't feature a 2.5G Port. The hap ax3 has one.
SOC Limits?
I've wondered about that myself.
A real shame... I would have bought it right away.

Definitely not SoC limit. See https://wikidevi.wi-cat.ru/Qualcomm and 160 MHz bandwidth with 6E band should be supported too according Qualcomm. https://www.qualcomm.com/products/inter ... 0-platform

pe1chl · Fri Oct 25, 2024 11:12 pm

I have encountered a case before where the Qualcomm datasheets indicates a capability for a chip, but the MikroTik product using the chip does not offer it.
The "LHG 5 ac" uses the IPQ4018 which according to https://www.qualcomm.com/products/inter ... ks/ipq4018 can do "Channels: 5 MHz, 10 MHz, 40 MHz, 20 MHz, 80 MHz", but no, the "LHG 5 ac" only has 20 MHz and wider channels, no 5 and 10 MHz.
There is no obvious reason for that, maybe it requires extra hardware that the "LHG 5 ac" does not have (the "LHG 5" does).

itimo01 · Fri Oct 25, 2024 11:34 pm

I've wondered about that myself.
A real shame... I would have bought it right away.
Definitely not SoC limit. See https://wikidevi.wi-cat.ru/Qualcomm and 160 MHz bandwidth with 6E band should be supported too according Qualcomm. https://www.qualcomm.com/products/inter ... 0-platform

I think the Qualcomm datasheet includes all chips that belong to that series.
Your wikidevi link mentions that the QCN5054 (and IPQ8072A) only does 2.4 and 5GHz.

But then again it also mentions the IPQ8072A would support "4x GbE, 2x 10G (NBASE-T)"

bratislav · Sat Oct 26, 2024 11:34 am

Please, pretty please :-)....
I really need some wsap hw UPDATE !!!
I would really appreciate some device hw update, ideally with the same form factor (wsap) but with AX wireless and (at least ) 1Gbps eth ports.

As you can be seen on this new wAP ax chipsets require pretty large heatsink, not something one could easily do on something like wsAP...
In the meantime if you can manage with only a single ethernet output and no phone jack (as most people nowadays use IP phones if any) you could use this wAP ax, it is a bit taller and a bit narrower but could easily cover wall power socket especially if Mikrotik provides an alternative mounting plate for this purpose...

bratislav · Sat Oct 26, 2024 11:49 am

New hEX looks great. We have been using old one as an edge router in many cases, it has pretty decent performance up to 500Mbps internet links and pretty good IPSec performance, and now with much faster CPU cores it should do much better even with more queues and firewall filters as suggested on test results and WireGuard should work much faster which is nice.
On the other hand as of lately more and more small sites do have faster Internet links that requires SFP+ ports and speeds. Would be nice if Mikrotik develops something like RB5009 but with only 2 SFP+ ports, one for Internet and other for local net that could be attached to SFP+ switch, and maybe serial or management port or both, or maybe one SFP+ and two 2.5Gbps RJ45 ports which should already be supported by Marvell Armada 7040 SOC as used in RB5009, so that it could be used as edge router for faster links...

bratislav · Sat Oct 26, 2024 12:05 pm

Definitely not SoC limit. See https://wikidevi.wi-cat.ru/Qualcomm and 160 MHz bandwidth with 6E band should be supported too according Qualcomm. https://www.qualcomm.com/products/inter ... 0-platform
I think the Qualcomm datasheet includes all chips that belong to that series.
Your wikidevi link mentions that the QCN5054 (and IPQ8072A) only does 2.4 and 5GHz.

But then again it also mentions the IPQ8072A would support "4x GbE, 2x 10G (NBASE-T)"

To bad wAP ax as a 2400 Mbit/s wifi device is also limited to 1Gbps ethernet, and IPQ5010 chip it is using acording to spec supports:

Ethernet: Provides 2.5G SGMII and 1GE interfaces for wired connectivity options.

stanislavdavid · Sat Oct 26, 2024 1:29 pm

It is quite sad, that we are happy, that Mikrotik published AX device. Competition released many WIFI 7 devices - Ubiquity, TP-link, Zyxel.....
Maybe Mikrotik is only one, that is releasing AX device.

bratislav · Sat Oct 26, 2024 1:53 pm

It is quite sad, that we are happy, that Mikrotik published AX device. Competition released many WIFI 7 devices - Ubiquity, TP-link, Zyxel.....
Maybe Mikrotik is only one, that is releasing AX device.

Wi-Fi 7 or 802.11be final ratification is not expected until the end of 2024, although many devices including latest iPhone 16 and Sony PlayStation 5 Pro released a couple of months ago are already supporting it as specs are not expected to change from preliminary...

On the other hand Linux kernel added some support in version 6.2 which is much newer than what Mikrotik is using so backporting that would be a significant task for developers IMHO...

crosswind · Sat Oct 26, 2024 2:38 pm

It is quite sad, that we are happy, that Mikrotik published AX device. Competition released many WIFI 7 devices - Ubiquity, TP-link, Zyxel.....
Maybe Mikrotik is only one, that is releasing AX device.

same thought, really. maybe .11be is not fully standardised yet, but radio hardware is available and clients are available -- seems odd that new MikroTik hero device for home router/AP user is only .11ax. who would buy it (other than dedicated MT user like us)?

crosswind · Sat Oct 26, 2024 2:40 pm

i would really like to know if hEX refresh include a hEX S refresh! hEX i am not interested in but i would definitely like some faster hEX S.

itimo01 · Sat Oct 26, 2024 4:11 pm

It is quite sad, that we are happy, that Mikrotik published AX device. Competition released many WIFI 7 devices - Ubiquity, TP-link, Zyxel.....
Maybe Mikrotik is only one, that is releasing AX device.

802.11be Standard is not finalized yet.
There is a Wi-Fi 7 Certified label, but technically the standard could still change.

And Big Boy Cisco is still on Wi-Fi 6E aswell.

Screenshot 2024-10-26 150138.png

itimo01 · Sat Oct 26, 2024 4:23 pm

Personally, coming from unifi (i know weird change right?), I'm quite happy to have a manufacturer that actually cares about certification, quality and enterprise features.
(All my Unifi APs died with different causes)

So a "slow" adoption of 802.11be is obvious, since it's not yet finalized.
On the other hand. 802.11ax 6Ghz (Wi-Fi6E) would have been nice to see because it's been finalized for a couple of years now.

But i do agree. I think the target now would/should be 802.11be for a launch once it gets finalized

pe1chl · Sat Oct 26, 2024 4:27 pm

Would be nice if Mikrotik develops something like RB5009 but with only 2 SFP+ ports, one for Internet and other for local net that could be attached to SFP+ switch

Maybe a CCR2004-1G-2XS-PCIe in a case? (not sure if that board would work without being in a PCIe slot)

Sun Oct 27, 2024 1:06 am

New hex sadly missing speaker

Boo !

I thought we got the message through to Mikrotik

Bring Back Beeper !

macsrwe · Sun Oct 27, 2024 10:37 am

Now that hEX Refresh has an ARM CPU, does that mean it can run Dude?

bmann · Sun Oct 27, 2024 3:19 pm

Nice refresh.
Still hope one day we get refresh of mAP lite AP.
Something like hAP ax lite in small travel friendly form factor running ROS 7.

Sun Oct 27, 2024 3:36 pm

Now that hEX Refresh has an ARM CPU, does that mean it can run Dude?

" old" Hex runs The Dude since a long time.

Sit75 · Mon Oct 28, 2024 10:56 am

Sorry guys, but 802.11be was standartized already - 26.9.2024. https://standards.ieee.org/ieee/802.11be/7516/

mkx · Mon Oct 28, 2024 11:13 am

Sorry guys, but 802.11be was standartized already - 26.9.2024. https://standards.ieee.org/ieee/802.11be/7516/

Oh yes, this was ages ago.

Yes, some vendors do develop and even start to market products before final standard gets adopted. They count on the possibility to make their products compliant to final standards by software upgrade (which mostly works out, but not every single time). And there are other vendors who wait for standards to be finalized and start to finalize their products only after that. I guess Mikrotik is one of vendors who do the later.

In addition, MT is a low-volume vendor (compared to some others) and I guess the priority with chipset vendors (Qualcomm, Mediatek, etc.) is a bit lower than with high-volume vendors. Which quite probably means MT gets chips at slightly higher price than the high-volume vendors. I guess this is another reason not to rush with new chipsets ... to wait for prices to drop a bit.

bratislav · Mon Oct 28, 2024 1:55 pm

Sorry guys, but 802.11be was standartized already - 26.9.2024. https://standards.ieee.org/ieee/802.11be/7516/

It is a preliminary version as can be seen from the title:
IEEE 802.11be-2024
IEEE Approved Draft Standard for Information technology
Although no changes are expected in the final version...

Sit75 · Mon Oct 28, 2024 4:21 pm

Sorry guys, but 802.11be was standartized already - 26.9.2024. https://standards.ieee.org/ieee/802.11be/7516/
Oh yes, this was ages ago.

Yes, some vendors do develop and even start to market products before final standard gets adopted. They count on the possibility to make their products compliant to final standards by software upgrade (which mostly works out, but not every single time). And there are other vendors who wait for standards to be finalized and start to finalize their products only after that. I guess Mikrotik is one of vendors who do the later.

In addition, MT is a low-volume vendor (compared to some others) and I guess the priority with chipset vendors (Qualcomm, Mediatek, etc.) is a bit lower than with high-volume vendors. Which quite probably means MT gets chips at slightly higher price than the high-volume vendors. I guess this is another reason not to rush with new chipsets ... to wait for prices to drop a bit.

I agree that is the probably the most valid point - in case of 802.11ax it took roughly 1 - 1,5 years after final approval of ax standard when hAP ax^2 (as the first Mikrotik ax device) appeared. But it is necessary to take on mind the influence of Covid-19 in that time and early maturity of RouterOS 7. Basic implementation of Qualcomm "be" chipset should be much easier today.

Sit75 · Mon Oct 28, 2024 4:32 pm

Sorry guys, but 802.11be was standartized already - 26.9.2024. https://standards.ieee.org/ieee/802.11be/7516/
It is a preliminary version as can be seen from the title:
IEEE 802.11be-2024
IEEE Approved Draft Standard for Information technology
Although no changes are expected in the final version...

No, "approved draft" = final version. It is clearly stated that "be" and "bh" standards were approved on 26.9.2024. https://www.ieee802.org/11/

Mon Oct 28, 2024 5:08 pm

Why are you arguing? The link says it clearly:

IEEE Std 802.11be™-2024 was approved on September 26, 2024. Publication expected soon.

anav · Mon Oct 28, 2024 7:53 pm

MKX you make some really good points.......... ensuring hardware choices dont bite in the ass, and not paying front end chip prices..........

Rox169 · Mon Oct 28, 2024 10:09 pm

Hi,

I do not understand the new model Chateau PRO ax. It is only mine point of view.....

1. I hate the design.....it is only stand up device, no option to mount it to wall and it takes too much space and with those big antennas looks terrible.
2. No 2,5 gig ether??? so it is step down in compare with hap AX3. So we have very fast WiFi but we have no option how too feed the fast WiFi. The whole concept is wrong then....
3. I like to see Mikrotik use new HW but the new procesor has very similar routing capability as AX3 and with limitation of 1gbit ether the new HW is wasted on this device..

You shoul take AX3 improve WiFi and put all 2,5 gib ether ports plus sfp and you could have high tech router. now you have cripled device for no one. Sorry to say it but think more next time. Such a pity

infabo · Tue Oct 29, 2024 10:04 am

I would not be so critical - when it was not named PRO. There is actually nothing PRO in this device. The other Chateau AX devices at least feature one 2.5G port - and that would have been the minimum to add here as well.
But you can install ROSE and attach an USB SSD and make it a NAS (according to product page). 😂

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