Dear All,
I have an ongoing installation. I have 16 wireless IP cameras on a site. I used Mkk RB433AH to connect about 3 crossroads in a WDS link. The RB433AH connects to the switch and to the server.
Three of the cameras could connect directly with the base(RB433AH) due to proximity while others connects to the base indirectly( via the Repeaters).
The WDS link is ok. I can telnet into the Repeaters from the base. I could torch and sniff. i monitotored the link for performance(using command /interface wireless wds >monitor>wds1,wds2, etc). I did print and all that.
My challenge was that the video picture freezes. The cameras connest and disconnect frequently.
I operate in a single subnet for all the devices(radios, cameras, notebooks,server)
STEPS TAKING
1. I set the compression rate high on the to 15FPS(Frame Per Second) at Bit Rate of 110-270Kbps for each
camera.
2. For network improvement, I have been working on how to minize the roaming so as to avoid, to the bearest minimum the FLIP-FLOPPING(caused by re-authenticating time delay). I want to build Access List and Connect list on all the radios including the Base. After which I will disable default Authentication on the wlan interfaces. I know how to do this.
3. I scan and I have changed the Frequency of the wlan interface to avoid interference from the clumsy 2412Ghz to 2432Ghz which has not been in used at the site location.
QUESTION
1.How do I manage this installation for a good QoS for overall performance? At least, monitoring cameras in RT mode in the worst scenario.
2.How do I manage/share/Limit the limited available BW/throughput on the radios to achieve a seamless video streaming?
3.Can anybody tell me what I am missing out here?
I need very urgent and useful contributions here.
Thanks to all
Re: Video Streaming Over WLAN: Best Practice on MKK Radios
I have waited with no response. Please someone should come up with an idea that will assist me to move on.
Re: Video Streaming Over WLAN: Best Practice on MKK Radios
you are asking too much for a free user forum. if you need consulting, and help setting up your network, we have consultants that you can hire.
Re: Video Streaming Over WLAN: Best Practice on MKK Radios
Thank you for the direct response Normis. It's really appreciated and may be I will considered that when I am using MKK for another solution/installation but definately not on this particular installation. I am sorry for asking for so much, I think I did not go through the Terms and Conditions of the forum well before I joined. Thank you.
Re: Video Streaming Over WLAN: Best Practice on MKK Radios
dipson -
You are asking a lot and you are asking a lot of the equipment to get the job done....4mbps+ across 3 radios in WDS mode......
If you have to use the 2.4ghz then make your access lists now so you can lock each camera to a particualr AP. Set the scanning frequency list for each AP/WDS node. Now find the worst camera feed, set your configured data rates for one step down from what this one connects at. I.e. - the worst camera connects at 36mbps, set your configured data rate at 24mbps, for all APs/WDS. This will minimize data rate 'hopping'.
You should be able to setup simple queues at each AP/WDS station for each camera....I'd use the default, set the max limit higher than the configured data rate make the buffer size larger (less likey to drop packets that way) though this can increase the delay of data a few milli-seconds....
You'd do better to have two freqencies to do the job with. 2.4ghz for the cameras and use 5ghz for moving data to/from the remote APs to your main. Basically at your main site you'd have a 2.4ghz AP and a 5ghz AP. The 2.4ghz would be used for the cameras and the 5ghz to go to your remote locations. There at the remote you'd have 2.4ghz for the cameras again, and the 5ghz to get data back to/from the main site..... This would mean you really need to use a routed setup vice a wds/bridged setup. Should be a cake walk though to get all the data to your server.....
You really should be using a routed setup anyway unless you are trying to 'mesh' the entire setup for some reason or another.....or are too cheap to get the right equipment to do the job.
R/
Thom
You are asking a lot and you are asking a lot of the equipment to get the job done....4mbps+ across 3 radios in WDS mode......
If you have to use the 2.4ghz then make your access lists now so you can lock each camera to a particualr AP. Set the scanning frequency list for each AP/WDS node. Now find the worst camera feed, set your configured data rates for one step down from what this one connects at. I.e. - the worst camera connects at 36mbps, set your configured data rate at 24mbps, for all APs/WDS. This will minimize data rate 'hopping'.
You should be able to setup simple queues at each AP/WDS station for each camera....I'd use the default, set the max limit higher than the configured data rate make the buffer size larger (less likey to drop packets that way) though this can increase the delay of data a few milli-seconds....
You'd do better to have two freqencies to do the job with. 2.4ghz for the cameras and use 5ghz for moving data to/from the remote APs to your main. Basically at your main site you'd have a 2.4ghz AP and a 5ghz AP. The 2.4ghz would be used for the cameras and the 5ghz to go to your remote locations. There at the remote you'd have 2.4ghz for the cameras again, and the 5ghz to get data back to/from the main site..... This would mean you really need to use a routed setup vice a wds/bridged setup. Should be a cake walk though to get all the data to your server.....
You really should be using a routed setup anyway unless you are trying to 'mesh' the entire setup for some reason or another.....or are too cheap to get the right equipment to do the job.
R/
Thom
Re: Video Streaming Over WLAN: Best Practice on MKK Radios
Thank you very much for the wonderful contribution. I owe you much appreciation.dipson -
You are asking a lot and you are asking a lot of the equipment to get the job done....4mbps+ across 3 radios in WDS mode......
I have 4 crossroad Mkk radio connecting to one RB433AH(base) in a AP/WDS mode. For simplification for the end user, I really dont want to do routing moreso, the site is one location but a big site( medical clinic). Obviously, routing may not really be necessary, moreso in order not to complicate the installation for the end users who are not IT inclined. That's is the reason for opting for WDS just to extend the Wireless LAN.
If you have to use the 2.4ghz then make your access lists now so you can lock each camera to a particualr AP. I am working on that and the "flip flopping"is reducing. Set the scanning frequency list for each AP/WDS node. I have been working with default. I will set it to a certain integer(a frequency that is not clumsy). Now find the worst camera feed, set your configured data rates for one step down from what this one connects at. I.e. - the worst camera connects at 36mbps, set your configured data rate at 24mbps, for all APs/WDS. This will minimize data rate 'hopping'. By this, I guess you mean the speed and I think you are reffering to the supported rate G(the manual advised to leave the basic rate G on 6Mbps).
You should be able to setup simple queues at each AP/WDS station for each camera....I'd use the default, set the max limit higher than the configured data rate make the buffer size larger (less likey to drop packets that way) though this can increase the delay of data a few milli-seconds.... I am reading the simple queue from the Ref manual. It looks interesting and I need to understand it perfect before implementation. You'd do better to have two freqencies to do the job with. 2.4ghz for the cameras and use 5ghz for moving data to/from the remote APs to your main. Basically at your main site you'd have a 2.4ghz AP and a 5ghz AP. The 2.4ghz would be used for the cameras and the 5ghz to go to your remote locations. There at the remote you'd have 2.4ghz for the cameras again, and the 5ghz to get data back to/from the main site..... This would mean you really need to use a routed setup vice a wds/bridged setup. Should be a cake walk though to get all the data to your server.....
You really should be using a routed setup anyway unless you are trying to 'mesh' the entire setup for some reason or another.....or are too cheap to get the right equipment to do the job.
R/
Thom
Re: Video Streaming Over WLAN: Best Practice on MKK Radios
Hello Oladipupo,
Nice to hear from you.
I can understand why you are using WDS vice routing - though in the end if they are just looking at the streaming video - would they really have to 'administer' the network?
As to the access list - this is straight forward - use the MAC address of you want connected to the particular AP/WDS node. Do not forget to add the main AP to these lists for the WDS connection.... Once you have all of the cameras and the WDS nodes connected - turn off default authenticate and forward on the APs. This will then keep the cameras from being able to associate to the different WDS nodes.
On data rates - yes leave the BASIC rate of 6mbps on. In configured rates - select one down from the worst connection. Then in your WLAN setup use 'configured rates' instead of basic rates. This will make the nodes and AP only connect at that rate... I usually select the one down from the worst and then the next - just in case, and finally I leave the 6mbps on as a last resort....
Simple queues are straight forward, there is a target address, or you can packet mark, either will get the queue running. Default queue is just basically a memory buffer FIFO (first in - first-out buffer type) to hold data and dole it out at a specified speed/rate and will 'buffer' the data if it comes in too fast or leaves too slow - hence why I said make it larger than it is already so you don't lose any data....
Hope some of this helps....
Regards,
Thom
Nice to hear from you.
I can understand why you are using WDS vice routing - though in the end if they are just looking at the streaming video - would they really have to 'administer' the network?
As to the access list - this is straight forward - use the MAC address of you want connected to the particular AP/WDS node. Do not forget to add the main AP to these lists for the WDS connection.... Once you have all of the cameras and the WDS nodes connected - turn off default authenticate and forward on the APs. This will then keep the cameras from being able to associate to the different WDS nodes.
On data rates - yes leave the BASIC rate of 6mbps on. In configured rates - select one down from the worst connection. Then in your WLAN setup use 'configured rates' instead of basic rates. This will make the nodes and AP only connect at that rate... I usually select the one down from the worst and then the next - just in case, and finally I leave the 6mbps on as a last resort....
Simple queues are straight forward, there is a target address, or you can packet mark, either will get the queue running. Default queue is just basically a memory buffer FIFO (first in - first-out buffer type) to hold data and dole it out at a specified speed/rate and will 'buffer' the data if it comes in too fast or leaves too slow - hence why I said make it larger than it is already so you don't lose any data....
Hope some of this helps....
Regards,
Thom
Re: Video Streaming Over WLAN: Best Practice on MKK Radios
Thank you very much for the professional touch. It's been helping alot.
It seems I am missing sometin out here. For the data rates, assuming the worst camera connection is 36mbps does that mean I will select 24mbps and deselect other rates or I will select 24mbps and below while deselecting 36,48 and 56mbps. Kindly clerify this for me please.
The various ACL are working fine. To reduce the BW overload, I install another AP for 4 cameras. I did the ACL, the simple queue and the performance is great, though little jitter and jerky persist but the streaming can be said to be seamless.
Now, I have 3 APs left connecting to the Main AP through WDS configuration. Four cameras connect to each of these APs. The performance is okay when I am close to the APs (and ofcourse the cameras are in good range). The major problem is bringing up a good link between the APs and the Main AP (base). This is very important to this installation.
Scan list is configured same as the Frequency in use. Other frequencies are a bit clumsy around but there are two unused (2432 and 2447). The radios operate presently on 2432.
I am planning to isolate the 2Wat Amp from the main base. I dont think I have benefitted nothing from the use of Amplifier. It has not increased the range and likewise the speed. i am getting 2mbps from one of the AP/WDS. That is too poor. R52 is the wireless card. I want to try this and see the performance.
I really need to get this installation behind me on time.
Thank you for your support. I am indebted to you sir.
It seems I am missing sometin out here. For the data rates, assuming the worst camera connection is 36mbps does that mean I will select 24mbps and deselect other rates or I will select 24mbps and below while deselecting 36,48 and 56mbps. Kindly clerify this for me please.
The various ACL are working fine. To reduce the BW overload, I install another AP for 4 cameras. I did the ACL, the simple queue and the performance is great, though little jitter and jerky persist but the streaming can be said to be seamless.
Now, I have 3 APs left connecting to the Main AP through WDS configuration. Four cameras connect to each of these APs. The performance is okay when I am close to the APs (and ofcourse the cameras are in good range). The major problem is bringing up a good link between the APs and the Main AP (base). This is very important to this installation.
Scan list is configured same as the Frequency in use. Other frequencies are a bit clumsy around but there are two unused (2432 and 2447). The radios operate presently on 2432.
I am planning to isolate the 2Wat Amp from the main base. I dont think I have benefitted nothing from the use of Amplifier. It has not increased the range and likewise the speed. i am getting 2mbps from one of the AP/WDS. That is too poor. R52 is the wireless card. I want to try this and see the performance.
I really need to get this installation behind me on time.
Thank you for your support. I am indebted to you sir.
Re: Video Streaming Over WLAN: Best Practice on MKK Radios
dipson -
I see from your post that the 2.4ghz band is pretty full.... 802.11b may work better than the 802.11g if it is a really 'noisy' environment. Try it and see if it works better.... If you set your system to only 802.11b then you'll need to adjust your data rates appropriately.
I would definitely get rid of the amp - it can really throw the system off, and it amplifies the noise as much as the signal you want to actually receive. So yes - getting rid of it should help.
R/
Thom
In your example above - yes disable the other rates except for 24mbps and 6mbps. That will ensure that your equipment connects at a 'best' speed. The 6mbps is only for 'safety' in case all else fails they should be able to 'talk' at the lowest rate available in that protocol.It seems I am missing sometin out here. For the data rates, assuming the worst camera connection is 36mbps does that mean I will select 24mbps and deselect other rates or I will select 24mbps and below while deselecting 36,48 and 56mbps. Kindly clerify this for me please.
I see from your post that the 2.4ghz band is pretty full.... 802.11b may work better than the 802.11g if it is a really 'noisy' environment. Try it and see if it works better.... If you set your system to only 802.11b then you'll need to adjust your data rates appropriately.
I would definitely get rid of the amp - it can really throw the system off, and it amplifies the noise as much as the signal you want to actually receive. So yes - getting rid of it should help.
R/
Thom
Re: Video Streaming Over WLAN: Best Practice on MKK Radios
Thom, thanks fot the suggestions. I just thought of this, what will be the effect of increasing the WDS default Cost, WDS Cost range on the wireless interface, and the MTU for the WDS interface?
I will take the suggestion one by one. in my opinion, the band isnt totally ful. See below the scan result for the environment.
Flags: A - active, B - bss, P - privacy, R - routeros-network, N - nstreme
ADDRESS SSID BAND FREQ SIG NF SNR RADIO-NAME
ABP 00:00:00:00:00:70 DIA WLAN 2.4ghz-g 2412 -82 -92 10
BP 00:00:00:00:00:60 DIA WLAN 2.4ghz-g 2412 -91 -92 1
ABP 00:03:52:B2:DB:80 DIA WLAN 2.4ghz-g 2412 -88 -92 4
AB R 00:15:6D:63:A7:C1 profile1 2.4ghz-g 2412 -74 -92 18 profile1
AB R 00:02:6F:4A:C0:26 MBS 2.4ghz-g 2412 -80 -92 12 00026F4AC026
AB 00:30:1A:28:F9:94 2.4ghz-g 2417 -90 -92 2
AB 00:30:1A:09:3B:A1 2.4ghz-g 2427 -90 -92 2
ABP 00:03:52:66:79:E0 DIA WLAN 2.4ghz-g 2437 -61 -92 31
ABP 00:03:52:66:6E:70 DIA WLAN 2.4ghz-g 2437 -64 -92 28
AB R 00:15:6D:63:A7:5B profile2 2.4ghz-g 2437 -91 -92 1 profile2
AB R 00:02:6F:4F:44:E7 cadastr... 2.4ghz-g 2442 -92 -92 0 garki22
ABP 00:40:96:5D:F2:5E 2.4ghz-g 2452 -83 -92 9
AB R 00:15:6D:63:68:38 gilmor-... 2.4ghz-g 2452 -91 -92 1 00156D636838
AB 00:C0:A8:B7:3F:E9 FREE_IT... 2.4ghz-g 2457 -88 -92 4
AB 00:30:1A:0C:53:21 Bangkok 2.4ghz-g 2457 -89 -92 3
A DE:52:5C:8E:00:C3 UoD_WiFi 2.4ghz-g 2462 -88 -92 4
AB 00:30:1A:33:28:80 2.4ghz-g 2462 -85 -92 7
A 02:13:02:00:00:F7 CTAccess 2.4ghz-g 2462 -85 -92 7
ABP 00:C0:CA:19:48:7D Home 2.4ghz-g 2462 -86 -92 6
ABP 00:03:52:B2:EB:90 DIA WLAN 2.4ghz-g 2412 -96 -92 -4
BP 00:03:52:B3:1D:F0 DIA WLAN 2.4ghz-g 2412 -95 -92 -3
ABP 00:02:6F:49:20:94 checkmate 2.4ghz-g 2422 -88 -92 4
[admin@SHMC Base Radio Station] /interface wireless>
I will hang the radio and see the performance without amp. but the card's wattage rating is small(60mW R52). I will talk to the distributor to see if I can get a higher card as well.
I am sharing the same mast that has two-way radio antennas and repeaters, could this interfere greatly with the radios?
Hope to hearing from you soonest.
I will take the suggestion one by one. in my opinion, the band isnt totally ful. See below the scan result for the environment.
Flags: A - active, B - bss, P - privacy, R - routeros-network, N - nstreme
ADDRESS SSID BAND FREQ SIG NF SNR RADIO-NAME
ABP 00:00:00:00:00:70 DIA WLAN 2.4ghz-g 2412 -82 -92 10
BP 00:00:00:00:00:60 DIA WLAN 2.4ghz-g 2412 -91 -92 1
ABP 00:03:52:B2:DB:80 DIA WLAN 2.4ghz-g 2412 -88 -92 4
AB R 00:15:6D:63:A7:C1 profile1 2.4ghz-g 2412 -74 -92 18 profile1
AB R 00:02:6F:4A:C0:26 MBS 2.4ghz-g 2412 -80 -92 12 00026F4AC026
AB 00:30:1A:28:F9:94 2.4ghz-g 2417 -90 -92 2
AB 00:30:1A:09:3B:A1 2.4ghz-g 2427 -90 -92 2
ABP 00:03:52:66:79:E0 DIA WLAN 2.4ghz-g 2437 -61 -92 31
ABP 00:03:52:66:6E:70 DIA WLAN 2.4ghz-g 2437 -64 -92 28
AB R 00:15:6D:63:A7:5B profile2 2.4ghz-g 2437 -91 -92 1 profile2
AB R 00:02:6F:4F:44:E7 cadastr... 2.4ghz-g 2442 -92 -92 0 garki22
ABP 00:40:96:5D:F2:5E 2.4ghz-g 2452 -83 -92 9
AB R 00:15:6D:63:68:38 gilmor-... 2.4ghz-g 2452 -91 -92 1 00156D636838
AB 00:C0:A8:B7:3F:E9 FREE_IT... 2.4ghz-g 2457 -88 -92 4
AB 00:30:1A:0C:53:21 Bangkok 2.4ghz-g 2457 -89 -92 3
A DE:52:5C:8E:00:C3 UoD_WiFi 2.4ghz-g 2462 -88 -92 4
AB 00:30:1A:33:28:80 2.4ghz-g 2462 -85 -92 7
A 02:13:02:00:00:F7 CTAccess 2.4ghz-g 2462 -85 -92 7
ABP 00:C0:CA:19:48:7D Home 2.4ghz-g 2462 -86 -92 6
ABP 00:03:52:B2:EB:90 DIA WLAN 2.4ghz-g 2412 -96 -92 -4
BP 00:03:52:B3:1D:F0 DIA WLAN 2.4ghz-g 2412 -95 -92 -3
ABP 00:02:6F:49:20:94 checkmate 2.4ghz-g 2422 -88 -92 4
[admin@SHMC Base Radio Station] /interface wireless>
I will hang the radio and see the performance without amp. but the card's wattage rating is small(60mW R52). I will talk to the distributor to see if I can get a higher card as well.
I am sharing the same mast that has two-way radio antennas and repeaters, could this interfere greatly with the radios?
Hope to hearing from you soonest.
Re: Video Streaming Over WLAN: Best Practice on MKK Radios
dipson -
Well I hate to break it to you this way but yes - the 2.4ghz band is really full..... Looks to me that your best frequency would be 2462.... At least there most of the competing signals are -88db and lower (lower being -90db, etc). See in 802.11b/g your center frequency is the 'channel' you select. So lets say you select 2437. Ok you actually receive and broadcast from 2427 to 2447. Because 802.11b/g are 20mhz wide channels so you use 10mhz on either side of your center. So anything else in the area broadcasting in the 2427-2447 range would interfere with your signal....
Out of band interference can be an issue - depends on how far out of band the RF is, how much power is being broadcast.... See you can 'over power' any receiver with enough RF energy in any band - that's why the freq of the other devices and their output power are going to figure in to what you have there. You may be able to get a 'broadband' 2.4ghz filter - and it may help some for the out of band internerence. Basically it is a filter that only lets 2.4ghz in, and attenuates everything else. Broadband as it will allow you to use any of the 2.4ghz frequencies instead of the frequency specific filters that only allow ONE 2.4ghz frequency, like a 2.462ghz filter or the 2.412ghz filter - these only allow that ONE frequency.
Try and get either a R52H (MT card) or an SR2/XR2 from Ubiquity. The R52H has 350mw output power. The SR2 and XR2 have 400mw and 600mw respectfully as max output power. Not sure of your country's regulations on power/frequency so you'll have to find that out yourself.
R/
Thom
Well I hate to break it to you this way but yes - the 2.4ghz band is really full..... Looks to me that your best frequency would be 2462.... At least there most of the competing signals are -88db and lower (lower being -90db, etc). See in 802.11b/g your center frequency is the 'channel' you select. So lets say you select 2437. Ok you actually receive and broadcast from 2427 to 2447. Because 802.11b/g are 20mhz wide channels so you use 10mhz on either side of your center. So anything else in the area broadcasting in the 2427-2447 range would interfere with your signal....
Out of band interference can be an issue - depends on how far out of band the RF is, how much power is being broadcast.... See you can 'over power' any receiver with enough RF energy in any band - that's why the freq of the other devices and their output power are going to figure in to what you have there. You may be able to get a 'broadband' 2.4ghz filter - and it may help some for the out of band internerence. Basically it is a filter that only lets 2.4ghz in, and attenuates everything else. Broadband as it will allow you to use any of the 2.4ghz frequencies instead of the frequency specific filters that only allow ONE 2.4ghz frequency, like a 2.462ghz filter or the 2.412ghz filter - these only allow that ONE frequency.
Try and get either a R52H (MT card) or an SR2/XR2 from Ubiquity. The R52H has 350mw output power. The SR2 and XR2 have 400mw and 600mw respectfully as max output power. Not sure of your country's regulations on power/frequency so you'll have to find that out yourself.
R/
Thom
Re: Video Streaming Over WLAN: Best Practice on MKK Radios
Thom,
I had thought of the higher card moreso that there is better performance when I discontinue the Amplifier. I will change the frequency to 2462 to see the result. I cant say if I can get the broadband filter though I will look for it. The regulation does not stop me using such higher card, a friend even told me I can still use up to 1W from Ubiquity or MKK. Alll of these will form my new steps towards moving on with the installation.
Thank you for the time taking to attend to me. Each contribution makes things go better.
I had thought of the higher card moreso that there is better performance when I discontinue the Amplifier. I will change the frequency to 2462 to see the result. I cant say if I can get the broadband filter though I will look for it. The regulation does not stop me using such higher card, a friend even told me I can still use up to 1W from Ubiquity or MKK. Alll of these will form my new steps towards moving on with the installation.
Thank you for the time taking to attend to me. Each contribution makes things go better.
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