Not really. What if the pigtail at the data center side is a 20db attenuator? Wouldn't that affect tx/rx at the same time? If you had highly asymmetric signal levels, then you would start to look at the card(s).However, if one side was bad wouldnt the signal tx / rx be way different if it was only 1 side with the problem ?
Sounds like a problem I've had here.Not to mention any evapoartive effects from the metals heating and cooling.
(Have you ever tryed a radio shot over loadstone?)
Really? I have a few in the field and they do seem to be in the 28 dB area.The Pac 28 dB grid I tried seemed to be more like a 20 dB in the real world.
Maybe 20 db is an exaggeration on my part. I replaced a small 24~25 dB dish with one of the 28 dB grids when they first came out. After realigning for quite some time with no better than a loss of 4 or 5 dB I finally took the grid down and put the dish back up on the tower. A few weeks later I replaced the small dish with a Pac 28 dB dish and saw a slight improvement instead of a loss. This was a 19.5 mile link. These antennas had just come out, maybe I had a bad one........Really? I have a few in the field and they do seem to be in the 28 dB area.
Either that, or the 24 dB panel antennas are really 16 dB.
I use mojiro's cacti template from http://forum.mikrotik.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=21189Hello,
Please tell me where do You generate that nice signal graphs?
RK, thanx...I use mojiro's cacti template from http://forum.mikrotik.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=21189
Nice. Very nice.pacwireless 32db dual polarity solids ($49 each on ebay!)
I have used plenty of the pac 29's (probably 50 of 'em), they are perfectly good antennas. Improving your fresnel is what actually helped.I have replaced both ends with PacWireless 32db dual polarity dishes. I also increased height at the data center by about 4-5 feet, and on the water tower about 2-3 feet. Signal went from -80's to -50's. I have a feeling those PacWireless 29db grids aren't really 29db. Going to the data center over the next week to flush out installation and will take more pictures and post the final solution. Will be testing nstreme2 today with the dual polarity dishes, hopefully there is enough isolation to not cause me problems. BUT - WOOO HOOO, finally a link that is working. I'm hoping to get 80-120mbps from the data center into the wireless mesh, could be a pipe dream : )
Oh yeah, when ducting happens the signal goes down into the -40s now...
Thanks everyone for the help. I really appreciate it.
No, the fresnel zone does not depend on the beamwidth of the antenna.Assuming different antennas but exact same alignment and heights, that improves fresnel because of the degree of beamwidth correct? Going from 4 degree to 3 degree increases fresnel simply because its a narrower path?
True. But the beamwidth does have an effect on the amount of energy transported in the LOS tunnel.No, the fresnel zone does not depend on the beamwidth of the antenna.
It depends only on frequency and distance.
I am starting to think its freznel zone effects as well, but really can't figure out why it would increase tremendously every once in a while:
If it was the roof reflecting would it do what I see above?
If it was the weather (temperature inversion) would I see it only happen for 30 mins or so as shown above?
Now if it was another source putting off RF interference I would see the above. Is there an easier way to test that / track it down?
sorry about hijacking this thread but what about that program that visually showed the fresnel zon and his link across the vertical slice of the land. what program is that and how do i get itHi changeip, which software is it? that graphs the signal from RB's...I am starting to think its freznel zone effects as well, but really can't figure out why it would increase tremendously every once in a while:
If it was the roof reflecting would it do what I see above?
If it was the weather (temperature inversion) would I see it only happen for 30 mins or so as shown above?
Now if it was another source putting off RF interference I would see the above. Is there an easier way to test that / track it down?
Radio Mobile, here http://www.cplus.org/rmw/english1.htmlsorry about hijacking this thread but what about that program that visually showed the fresnel zon and his link across the vertical slice of the land. what program is that and how do i get it
If you join the Radio Mobile Yahoo group (mailing list), you can get access to the Files section of the group site at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Radio_Mobile_Deluxe/ which has many useful antenna pattern files, including many patterns for Pacific Wireless (Laird) antennas.Greetings!
Does anyone have antenna templates for 2,4 and 5 GHz, that i can import in RadioMobile?
Hi,,
Im make link for 36KM distance links :
2*RB433AH
2*XR5 with cables.
Dish 32db dual 90cm
antenna dual 32db
the link working very good the signal is :
Hi ...Why you did not mount the antenna in considerable height?How far your second antenna?
I don't think it will work.Mounting a 24 dbi grid (2.4 G Hz) on a house building height (8 Meter) and the second 24 dbi antenna on the same height with 14 KM far away (Distance between both antennas) but no obstacle between them.behind these antenna I have 26 dbm transmit power wireless router.so can I have 26 MB or above bandwidth?
I don't think it will work.Mounting a 24 dbi grid (2.4 G Hz) on a house building height (8 Meter) and the second 24 dbi antenna on the same height with 14 KM far away (Distance between both antennas) but no obstacle between them.behind these antenna I have 26 dbm transmit power wireless router.so can I have 26 MB or above bandwidth?
Even without obstruction in the path there will be earth curvature itself. Small at 14km anyway but it's there. The main obstacle is fresnel zones blocking.
On such path at 2.4GHz to clear up at least 0.6 F both antennas must be at ~22m height each side. If it was 5.8GHz, for the same 0.6 F antennas must be ~16m each side.
Regards;
Well, I took a look at this calculator.I use equal height antenna section with 0.6 Fresnel zone.
This calculator give 12.9 meter height.
so if I change 8 height to 12.9 it will work Am I right?
Can you tell me what do you mean by 1m clearance?
I understood that I have to add the objects reside in line of side eclipse like tree or some unequal earth
Am I right?
Of course. If there's no obstruction nor interference I thing even using 10MHz channel + NV2 (or Nstreme) you can reach 10Mbps. If the cards you choosed are N capable, better. Most of my cards at 2.4 (and 5.8 in near future) are R52nM.If I have clear line of site and 24 dbi grid antenna with 23 dbm output power using 2.4 Ghz unlicensed. I will be able to transmit at least 10 MB or not?
If I use 5.8 Ghz can I get 10 MB or still not?
Im running Ubiquiti 90 degree 5GHz sectors 19dbi with 711GA-5HnD as an AP, and have hooked around 30 sextants and 15 SXT 5HnD and the farest SExtant its at 13.2 km from the ap and have a -72dBm and a 14mbps throghput. They work like charm with nv2 and dual chain enabled.at a regular time and daily?
I have never known the sun to be that specific with it schedules.
Anyways, it may be something else, but i doubt it is the sun.
One question though, I'd like to know if those sextants work better then the UBNTs, i'm trying to get my boss to use the Mtik equipment over the UBNT equipment for transparent links
You are replying to someone?... i get lost with your reply.maybe something industrial/military ?
or commercial stuff improperly installed ?
If you had spectrum analyzer, GNURadio, WinRadio with this band module and etc - you can actually get some details.
but generally only feds had hardware and experience to locate this both in time, frequency and location.
maybe worth contacting your region communications suprevisors/inspectors.
generally NOBODY should shouting with SUCH transmission power on ISM bands. ever !![in civilian time]
talking about YOU case - such bands and such outputs - usual[similar] to radio-relay stations and [Especially!]for tropo-scatters. some mobile Tropo stations [usually military/gov't]use, despite small size - output measured in KW and even MW !! [but more densely occupied tropo was in K-Band]. Radars can do too, but they working on persistent basis, except some space-sensing and other specific, so wouldn't be related to timed/sheduled issues/troubles.
p..s
remind me one story when overloaded cell station with improperly installed[broken] bandpass filter severely cripple other stations nearby and even wi-fi in proximity.
I'v links running straight through low, medium and high voltage power lines. Some at distance, some relative close (<500mtr) and I have so far never noticed any disruption because of these.I'm shooting thru a high voltage powerline about 0.5 miles away, is it possible thats affecting it? Maybe the power on that line was turned off that time it got better? I wouldn't think so, but just a long shot.
which is making sense, btw. by basically nature of EMI itself.No every noise in audio systems using wireless is due to interference, or even to the wireless equipment itself. Because interference is a known problem with wireless, it is common to blame it for unwanted audio noise.
Some good rules of thumb when it comes to electronic or radio noise out speakers:which is making sense, btw. by basically nature of EMI itself.No every noise in audio systems using wireless is due to interference, or even to the wireless equipment itself. Because interference is a known problem with wireless, it is common to blame it for unwanted audio noise.
for example - my cellphones (of two kind)affect my speakers very notably, during use(even when system send something or just SMS arrived and new graphics card of my friend - cause similar sound issue for him. that was one kind of 970 GPU's AFAIK he was tried to switch exemplar, brand, but problem persist so he vent to 980ti, desperate. and its solved issue only partially according to him(i quote "i miss good times with R280" or something alike that).
Polish students have managed to establish 250 km 5GHz link with Mikrotik and use Skype to verify quality.Kinda makes me wonder - how far this could actually work if you had line-of-site beyond several hundred miles with 10 foot dishes? Anybody know what the distance record is for a Mikrotik ? I wonder if it would be possible to take two huge dishes and point them at the moon and bounce off the surface and connect to another Mikrotik. Might as well try to blow away the world record (about 237 miles) and beat it by 1/2 million miles - lol.
Yea - I totally know what your are saying about noise.im afraid combating EMI is more complex than can be emplained by few rules. or even few books
i would mount the equipment on a rubber pipe on the top so its isolated from the mask
and run this cable
http://www.assemblymag.com/ext/resource ... ation1.jpg
to the bottom and ground as far away from the mask(reactor) generating the noice
so its a insulated grounding away from the source of the problem
Next time I am up there I will take some photos of our tower and the surroundings - elevation almost 4300 feet.do you have photos of this install on this location you have problems
Some idea; Install Netmetal radios. Use ethernet cable for POE-in only+backup, run fibre from central to the radio. No more issues on the ethernet side..... now you can focus on the radio signals....i would mount the equipment on a rubber pipe on the top so its isolated from the mask
and run this cable
http://www.assemblymag.com/ext/resource ... ation1.jpg
to the bottom and ground as far away from the mask(reactor) generating the noice
so its a insulated grounding away from the source of the problem
Re - the rubber pipe
I tried that several times and it fried both ends of the equipment on the Ethernet several times - and I could not pass 10 or 100 meg full duplex Ethernet traffic without heavy data errors.
With the way I have things grounded now, with the non-POE ports, I can now pass 1 gig full duplex with very few data errors. If I try running the POE ports at anything beyond 10 meg, I still get high data errors. So I now use at least two Ethernet cables - the POE port for power only and a second (and sometimes a third) Ethernet port(s) for data.
Well, if the bird starts to smoke in full flight I think he is signalling dinner is ready.....re: (About the Radar, wouldn't it melt the snow away for you?
I can't help but wonder how 2,000,000 plus watts will effect a bird flying through the radar beam.
I have only seen a bird explode one time - and that was when an eagle landed on a very very very high voltage transformer. Everything on the bird was instantly vaporized and it smelled horrible and the light was blinding and the noise was a very loud buzzzzzz for about 3 seconds.
Although this is a military radar system with some FAA use also, I heard it is also a phased array system. Where the inside will rotate on a round track and the antenna on the track is a multi-frequency phased-array set of panel antennas. Which allows the rotating track antenna to stop rotating and still have a decent over-the-horizon radar information.Well, if the bird starts to smoke in full flight I think he is signalling dinner is ready.....re: (About the Radar, wouldn't it melt the snow away for you?
I can't help but wonder how 2,000,000 plus watts will effect a bird flying through the radar beam.
I have only seen a bird explode one time - and that was when an eagle landed on a very very very high voltage transformer. Everything on the bird was instantly vaporized and it smelled horrible and the light was blinding and the noise was a very loud buzzzzzz for about 3 seconds.
But yeah, most radars are revolving, so the beam is only pointed in some direction for a split second. And they will have a safety distance off course. I don't presume anybody is allowed to run in front of the radar for a while at relative short distance on a military installation.
But electronics might get a burst each time the signal beam will pass close or hit it/the building....
A bit unrelated - however ...have you ever saw some new SOHO Wi-Fi routers ? 6x antennas !! 8x antennas !! and announced development of router with 10x and 12x !!!(but 4x and 6x of them advertised as "internal", Godness
thats crazy ! (and crazy-looking IMHO and eventually become mainstream so routers/AP become AFAR-alike radars in many respects. its Already in standard. all those "beam-froming" and aligned to, features...
just need bit more powerful CPU for calculations in radios and here you go .... fully manageable/adaptable in time/space/spectrum
Look, if you make the antenna big enough versus you put enough power behind it you can reach the moon. That's not an issue.A bit unrelated - however ...have you ever saw some new SOHO Wi-Fi routers ? 6x antennas !! 8x antennas !! and announced development of router with 10x and 12x !!!(but 4x and 6x of them advertised as "internal", Godness
thats crazy ! (and crazy-looking IMHO and eventually become mainstream so routers/AP become AFAR-alike radars in many respects. its Already in standard. all those "beam-froming" and aligned to, features...
just need bit more powerful CPU for calculations in radios and here you go .... fully manageable/adaptable in time/space/spectrum
Around 5 to 8 years ago ... I had some people here testing out a Google branded SOHO indoor Wi-Fi wireless router. I think it had something like 8 internal antennas with some special kind of a directional diversity chip in it. We drove out 12 miles from one of my towers, then placed it on the hood of my vehicle and got a connection. My tower had a Vivato phased beam steering 2.4 GHz connection with the Google Wi-Fi at 11 meg 802.11 B mode. The Google Wi-Fi was pretty awesome for a SOHO with no external antenna(s). (FYI - I believe the Vivato base station is still the most powerful legal 2.4 GHz base-station access-point on the planet - because it functions as a sector multi-point but because of the beam forming directional steering of the signals, it was registered as a point-to-point system which can then use the higher power FCC regulations/laws. FYI - A tower mounted 2.4 GHz Vivato weighs in at 180 pounds !!!
I can only assume the newer stuff these days is far better than the stuff we had back then.
On a sidenote ; you feel any business impact/disruption from eg. Starlink services ? Rather cheap I believe & moving a lot of data is not really more expensive.Other than my company, customers can use a dish satellite company or a cell phone company data plan - both are very expensive if you move lots of data.
To me , what's interesting is that on all of my short point-to-point wireless networks ( AP to a single client ) , I've always found that Wireless-Protocol using 802.11 was the fastest in both directions. However , on this 31-km link , 802.11 will not connect , but nv2 did connect.I’d say that’s pretty impressive for an initial alignment of a 31 km link, especially considering it was raining.