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0ldman
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5.11 and WDS

Wed Mar 28, 2012 12:48 am

Is there a problem with WDS on v5?

I have a motel customer, 5 AP's, 1st has R52H AP WDS and SR9 AP WDS, 2nd is AP WDS, 3rd is connected to second via ethernet. 4th is RB411AR AP with SR9 Station WDS, 5th is connected to 4th via ethernet.

Someone messed with the cables, so I had to go onsite today. I took that opportunity to upgrade from 3.30 and 4.17 to 5.11. When I did none of the WDS links came back up. I downgraded the main AP (1st) and the SR9 in station WDS connected. The 2nd AP in AP Bridge WDS reconnected, but would not pass traffic. I downgraded the 2nd to 4.17 and got the motel back up and running.

Any tips? I'd prefer to get all back on v5, more mangle options. This is all 802.11b/g, 10mb internal bandwidth connected to a 1mb Internet service. Ethernet is not an option. There is no way to run the cables. I could upgrade the links, but dedicated links are overkill for this service and will be nearly impossible to justify to the owner when the older version of the software works great.
 
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Re: 5.11 and WDS

Fri Mar 30, 2012 2:34 pm

That's strange. We have not run into this problem and we are currently running 5.14 on our one WDS install. Could it be something with the SR9 cards. I have never used the SR9 cards, we have always used the XR9.
 
0ldman
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Re: 5.11 and WDS

Sun Apr 01, 2012 4:24 am

I didn't try 5.14. Didn't want to keep tinkering, people were getting antsy.
 
trayl
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Re: 5.11 and WDS

Tue Apr 10, 2012 11:35 pm

Check the setting on the data rates tab under wireless interaces. Since router OS 5.8 when the introduced the new advanced algorithm for data rate selection the default is now advanced vice legacy. I have had problems with using the advanced algorithm with SR9 cards. Try setting it back to legacy to see if the clears the problem
 
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Re: 5.11 and WDS

Wed Apr 11, 2012 2:26 am

I've got that system stable running 4.17 on two, 5.11 on the other three.

So far every device I have WDS on (not many mind you) has issues with v5. I need to tinker with it a bit in my office and see if I can reproduce the problem.
 
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Hotz1
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Re: 5.11 and WDS

Mon Apr 30, 2012 11:24 pm

So far every device I have WDS on (not many mind you) has issues with v5...
Same here, except I have been using WDS to set up a simple bridged backhaul mesh, and as of 5.x the configuration no longer works. Note that it happens with various radios (CM9, all the r52n variations, the OmniTik & SXT), and if either or both ends of the link is running 5.x (It works fine if both ends are running 4.x.)
 
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Re: 5.11 and WDS

Wed May 16, 2012 10:08 am

I am having the same issue on 5.11. It gets large amounts of traffic over the WDS interfaces as soon as they register and doesnt allow me to access them any more, i have to access via Mac address and disable to WDS to get back in. Have tried upgrading to 5.16 and am still having the same issue.
This seems to work fine with two APS connected via WDS, though when i have one AP with more than one WDS interface this is when the issue arises.
When i downgrade to version 4.16 the issue is gone.
Any ideas what is causing this?
 
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Hotz1
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Re: 5.11 and WDS

Wed May 16, 2012 2:38 pm

I am having the same issue on 5.11. It gets large amounts of traffic over the WDS interfaces as soon as they register and doesnt allow me to access them any more, i have to access via Mac address and disable to WDS to get back in. Have tried upgrading to 5.16 and am still having the same issue.
This seems to work fine with two APS connected via WDS, though when i have one AP with more than one WDS interface this is when the issue arises.
When i downgrade to version 4.16 the issue is gone.
Any ideas what is causing this?
This does sound like the same problem I have been seeing. I never noticed whether it only happens when more than one interface uses WDS, but now that you mention it, looking at my network, the devices that "behave themselves" do have only one radio.

FWIW, this problem continues in 6.0beta2.

My support ticket is #2012032266000094. Feel free to drop MTsupport a line, and let them know that it isn't just me!
 
uldis
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Re: 5.11 and WDS

Wed May 16, 2012 4:02 pm

we are unable to reproduce that large traffic problem when you start using WDS.
We need the simplest setup to reproduce this problem - that will help us to find the problem and fix.
 
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Hotz1
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Re: 5.11 and WDS

Wed May 16, 2012 4:26 pm

we are unable to reproduce that large traffic problem when you start using WDS.
We need the simplest setup to reproduce this problem - that will help us to find the problem and fix.
Well, I have forwarded supout files from several devices while the packet storm was going on, so I'm not sure what else to do. I'm unable to not reproduce it!

Most recently, I set up two brand-new OmniTiks in our lab. Each has a bridge: rstp enabled, wlan1 and ether1-5 as ports, IP addresses on the same subnet. Connect ether1 from one of the OmniTiks to the rest of your network. Configure wlan1: ap-bridge, same freq & SSID, wds-mode=dynamic. Enable the wlan1 interfaces, WDS is established. At some point, either immediately or within two hours at most, the interfaces will show a sustained multi-megabit stream of broadcasts originating from the WDS interface, and spilling into the rest of your network.

Perhaps network traffic from another part of our network is triggering this problem, and unless you have similar input on your testing network, it won't happen. Maybe it's a probe from The Dude. Or maybe it comes from devices that have more than one WDS interface (e.g., three 433s, each with two ap-bridge radios linking to the two others, using three different channels). We have several such devices on our network, all running 4.17. Those are working fine, but maybe they generate broadcast traffic that triggers a storm when it reaches a WDS link running on the newer ROS?

FWIW, I do appreciate that MT is paying attention to this.
 
Boo
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Re: 5.11 and WDS

Wed May 16, 2012 6:45 pm

I've been able to reproduce this consistently with 2 RB751U-2HnD's one as apbridge and the other as either apbridge or WDS slave, nothing else in the network. Usually only takes a few minutes for the storms to start.
 
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Hotz1
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WDS packet storms in 5.x and 6.x

Wed May 16, 2012 7:12 pm

I've been able to reproduce this consistently with 2 RB751U-2HnD's one as apbridge and the other as either apbridge or WDS slave, nothing else in the network. Usually only takes a few minutes for the storms to start.
Good to know! Now we just need to build a testbed for our friends in Latvia. ;-)

I have broadened the subject line to help others find the topic.
 
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Re: 5.11 and WDS

Sat May 19, 2012 5:44 pm

I have the same exact problem on my pair of RB751U-2HnD running AP Bridge mode with WDS-Bridge. Tried all the firmware including V6Beta2 but storm still observed. Only firmware 4.17 is OK.

After trying several permutation of configurations, I managed to find a way to fix this. Under Bridge Port configuration, just enable Horizon settings on WDS and WLAN interface by defining a same number for both interfaces. Do note that this Horizon settings can only be enabled on one of the two WDS nodes else traffic will somehow not pass through.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
 
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Hotz1
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Re: 5.11 and WDS

Tue Jun 05, 2012 2:17 pm

I have the same exact problem on my pair of RB751U-2HnD running AP Bridge mode with WDS-Bridge. Tried all the firmware including V6Beta2 but storm still observed. Only firmware 4.17 is OK.

After trying several permutation of configurations, I managed to find a way to fix this. Under Bridge Port configuration, just enable Horizon settings on WDS and WLAN interface by defining a same number for both interfaces.
So... what does this setting do?
Do note that this Horizon settings can only be enabled on one of the two WDS nodes else traffic will somehow not pass through.
And if we have devices with three radios in WDS mode, all ports on the same bridge, do you suppose we'll still have cross-talk from the other two?

I'll be experimenting with this today, but anything that will accelerate the process would be great. We need a solution to this ASAP, as our older hardware is aging out and we're replacing it with new boards. I don't want to have to put ROS 4.17 on RB435s.
 
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Hotz1
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Re: 5.11 and WDS

Tue Jun 05, 2012 4:43 pm

I found this entry in the online manual. Evidently, data from one bridge port will not be forwarded to other bridge ports with the same "horizon" value.

Does this mean the problem is that data arriving on the wlan port (via the WDS interface) is being forwarded back out the WDS port (via the wlan interface), and vice-versa?
  • If so, should the wlan interface itself not be a port on the bridge, just the WDS interface (via the wds-default-bridge setting)?
  • If both are required, does this mean we have to just assign the same "horizon" values to each pair of wlan/WDS interfaces?
  • Must WDS be static in order to assign it a permanent horizon value?
Lots of questions, very few answers forthcoming without a tremendous amount of trial-and-error. I'll be doing the latter today; hopefully someone else who has "been there, done that" can help me out with the former.
 
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Re: 5.11 and WDS

Wed Jun 06, 2012 5:07 pm

looks like we were able to find the loop when you connect two APs together with WDS. The fix will be added in v5.18.
 
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Re: 5.11 and WDS

Wed Jun 06, 2012 5:18 pm

looks like we were able to find the loop when you connect two APs together with WDS. The fix will be added in v5.18.
STUPENDOUS!!

If you need a Beta tester, send me a URL and I'll start testing it immediately!
 
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Re: 5.11 and WDS

Wed Jun 06, 2012 10:56 pm

looks like we were able to find the loop when you connect two APs together with WDS. The fix will be added in v5.18.
Any idea on release date, as we have a very large installation due that will rely upon this.
 
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Re: 5.11 and WDS

Thu Jun 07, 2012 9:59 am

looks like we were able to find the loop when you connect two APs together with WDS. The fix will be added in v5.18.
Any idea on release date, as we have a very large installation due that will rely upon this.
Please email to support@mikrotik.com and provide also the Mikrotik account name - we will add you access to pre-release of the newest RouterOS version.
 
gnuttisch
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Re: 5.11 and WDS

Thu Jun 07, 2012 11:51 am

Hi

We are running a WDS Mesh network on a site whit groove A-2hn.

The AP are configured as AP-Bridge 2,4 B/G WDS Mesh.

The problem is that we are receiving very hi latency and the network feels like it is very slow. Currently we are running on release 5.16.

# software id = HKCF-1CF1
#
/interface wireless
set 0 band=2ghz-b/g default-forwarding=no disabled=no ht-ampdu-priorities=0,1,2,3 hw-retries=15 l2mtu=2290 mo
ssid=AP wds-mode=static-mesh
/interface mesh
add admin-mac=D4:CA:6D:2D:79:0C auto-mac=no mesh-portal=yes name=Mesh-Interface reoptimize-paths=yes
/interface wireless wds
add disabled=no l2mtu=2290 master-interface=wlan1 name=wds3 wds-address=D4:CA:6D:2D:79:0F
add disabled=no l2mtu=2290 master-interface=wlan1 name=wds4 wds-address=D4:CA:6D:2D:79:03
/interface wireless security-profiles
set [ find default=yes ] supplicant-identity=MikroTik
/ip hotspot user profile
set [ find default=yes ] idle-timeout=none keepalive-timeout=2m
/interface mesh port
add interface=ether1 mesh=Mesh-Interface port-type=ethernet
add interface=wlan1 mesh=Mesh-Interface port-type=wireless
add interface=wds3 mesh=Mesh-Interface port-type=WDS
add interface=wds4 mesh=Mesh-Interface port-type=WDS
/ip address
add address=192.168.88.2/24 comment="default configuration" interface=Mesh-Interface
/ip dns
set allow-remote-requests=yes max-udp-packet-size=512 servers=91.202.156.3
/ip dns static
add address=192.168.88.1 name=router
/ip neighbor discovery
set wlan1 disabled=yes
set wds3 disabled=yes
set wds4 disabled=yes
/ip route
add distance=1 gateway=192.168.88.1
/system identity
set name=MikroTik_AP
/system leds
set 0 interface=wlan1
set 1 interface=ether1
/system ntp client
set primary-ntp=130.235.20.67


Until the release of 5.18, would 4.17 fix my problems?
 
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Hotz1
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Re: 5.11 and WDS

Fri Jun 08, 2012 7:29 am

Bad news on 5.18rc1: on our test network (consisting of three two-radio RB433s, where each radio on each board is ap-bridge'd to one of the radios on the other two boards; and wlan1, wlan2 and ether1 on each board are bridged), the packet storm still starts almost immediately when the interface to either of the two remote boards is enabled. Sometimes the traffic (2-7Mbps) lasts for a few seconds, and then settles down to a few Kbps. On other occasions the traffic just takes off, pegs the CPU and sometimes renders itself and other devices on our network unreachable--just as before. (I will be forwarding a supout file in a moment.)

Perhaps the problem was identified, but solved only for the case of a single interface using WDS? On our test network, all three devices have two bridged radios that are using WDS. Again, note that it only seems to happen when the interfaces are ports on a bridge, and not when they are ports on a mesh. Perhaps HWMP+ is recognizing and blocking something internal that rtsp does not detect?
 
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Re: 5.11 and WDS

Fri Jun 08, 2012 12:52 pm

Try out now the new test release that was made today.
 
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Re: 5.11 and WDS

Sun Jun 10, 2012 3:05 am

Try out now the new test release that was made today.
36 hours without incident, and counting.

Disabling a radio occasionally takes the RB offline (no response via ether1, one of the bridge ports) for ~30 seconds, and enabling a radio often results in several seconds of multi-Megabit traffic over the newly-created WDS interface. But in both cases, everything settles back to normal in less than a minute.
 
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TheWiFiGuy
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Re: 5.11 and WDS

Tue Jun 12, 2012 10:42 am

Still looking good,

Have a test network of 20 RB751's and ping is avg 4ms across mesh, as opposed to fluctuating between 19ms - 4000ms with previous versions.
 
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Re: 5.11 and WDS

Fri Jun 15, 2012 11:21 pm

Still seeing some strange issues when using WDS on the latest 5.18rc (dated 17th June) - I had these errors on 5.16 as well.

THis is at an isolated site, no interference in the 2.4 ghz range.

Notice two errors: Management Protection Failure , and No Beacons.

Hardware is identical, using a script to configure all nodes. Why am I get a management protection failure sometimes, and why do I get these no-beacon errors

All signals are -65 to -75. 9 nodes in the WDS mesh. Pings range from 4ms to 210ms every few seconds.
jan/02/1970 04:43:44 wireless,info D6:CA:6D:2B:6C:B4@VAP1: connected, is AP, wants WDS 
jan/02/1970 04:44:45 wireless,info D6:CA:6D:2D:73:7F@VAP1: disconnected, management-protection failure 
jan/02/1970 04:44:45 wireless,info D6:CA:6D:2B:6C:B4@VAP1: disconnected, management-protection failure 
jan/02/1970 04:44:45 wireless,info D6:CA:6D:2D:73:7F@VAP1: connected, is AP, wants WDS 
jan/02/1970 04:44:46 wireless,info D6:CA:6D:2D:73:7D@VAP1: disconnected, management-protection failure 
jan/02/1970 04:44:46 wireless,info D6:CA:6D:2D:73:7D@VAP1: connected, is AP, wants WDS 
jan/02/1970 04:44:53 wireless,info D6:CA:6D:2B:6C:B4@VAP1: connected, is AP, wants WDS 
jan/02/1970 04:45:04 wireless,info D6:CA:6D:2B:6C:B4@VAP1: disconnected, no beacons received 
jan/02/1970 04:45:05 wireless,info VAP1: data from unknown device D6:CA:6D:2B:6C:B4, sent deauth 
jan/02/1970 04:45:05 wireless,info VAP1: data from unknown device D6:CA:6D:2B:6C:B4, sent deauth 
jan/02/1970 04:45:06 wireless,info D6:CA:6D:2B:6C:B4@VAP1: connected, is AP, wants WDS 
jan/02/1970 04:46:10 wireless,info D6:CA:6D:2B:6C:B4@VAP1: disconnected, management-protection failure 
jan/02/1970 04:46:10 wireless,info D6:CA:6D:2B:6C:B4@VAP1: connected, is AP, wants WDS 
jan/02/1970 04:46:14 wireless,info D6:CA:6D:2D:73:7D@VAP1: disconnected, management-protection failure 
jan/02/1970 04:46:14 wireless,info D6:CA:6D:2D:73:7D@VAP1: connected, is AP, wants WDS 
jan/02/1970 04:46:36 wireless,info D6:CA:6D:2B:6C:B4@VAP1: disconnected, no beacons received 
 
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Re: 5.11 and WDS

Tue Jun 19, 2012 6:10 pm

I had the same problem... Where Can I download this version ?
Thanks
Try out now the new test release that was made today.
36 hours without incident, and counting.

Disabling a radio occasionally takes the RB offline (no response via ether1, one of the bridge ports) for ~30 seconds, and enabling a radio often results in several seconds of multi-Megabit traffic over the newly-created WDS interface. But in both cases, everything settles back to normal in less than a minute.
 
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5.11 and WDS

Tue Jun 19, 2012 6:46 pm

Email support at support@mikrotik.com
 
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TheWiFiGuy
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Re: 5.11 and WDS

Fri Jun 22, 2012 12:38 am

Rolled out an install today using 12 x RB751 in a hotel. 4 Wired units, rest being WDS-slaves.

Results were initially poor, until we realised we still had 1 of the nodes running 5.6 , once it was rebooted and it applied the update, the ping's dropped from circa 1000ms to 3ms across the site. Currently 34 users online, results stable.

A good thumbs up for the 5.18RC1 ( and 5.18 as well, as there was a newer on the support forum).
 
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Hotz1
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Re: 5.11 and WDS

Tue Jun 26, 2012 2:26 am

Try out now the new test release that was made today.
36 hours without incident, and counting.
Just upgraded to the newly-released 5.18, still looking good.
Disabling a radio occasionally takes the RB offline (no response via ether1, one of the bridge ports) for ~30 seconds, and enabling a radio often results in several seconds of multi-Megabit traffic over the newly-created WDS interface. But in both cases, everything settles back to normal in less than a minute.
I have been informed that the burst of traffic upon connecting is to perform an initial signal measurement; i.e., standard operating procedure.

However, now I am seeing occasional outages in which Routerboard A thinks the WDS connection is fine (though showing Rx=0), while Routerboard B shows no WDS connection and the log indicates "unicast key exchange timeout". Toggling the radio on Routerboard A restores a working connection. It sounds like this might be related to a long-standing WDS/WPA2 incompatibiliity. I have started a new topic for this issue.
 
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Re: 5.11 and WDS

Tue Jun 26, 2012 3:26 am

Try out now the new test release that was made today.
36 hours without incident, and counting.

Disabling a radio occasionally takes the RB offline (no response via ether1, one of the bridge ports) for ~30 seconds, and enabling a radio often results in several seconds of multi-Megabit traffic over the newly-created WDS interface. But in both cases, everything settles back to normal in less than a minute.
I've got a few PTP shots that have that behavior. Change the channel, disable wlan1, anything that makes the link drop for more than a fraction of a second and the ether1 link drops as well.

I've assigned the IP to the bridge, ether1, doesn't make a difference.
 
ela002
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Re: 5.11 and WDS

Thu Mar 21, 2013 9:01 pm

I have version 5.24 on 751G and RB532 and if for some reason I disable/enable the wlan on 751G the RB532 doesn't connect anymore I get error messages "connected is app, wants wds". It will connect again only if I reboot 751G. How can I fix this?

751G ap-bridge, wds dynamic
RB532 ap-bridge wds dynamic
 
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Re: 5.11 and WDS

Fri Mar 22, 2013 11:44 am

try to use the wds-mode=dynamic-mesh on both boards and check again the logs.
 
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Re: 5.11 and WDS

Sat Mar 23, 2013 12:25 am

try to use the wds-mode=dynamic-mesh on both boards and check again the logs.
Now it's working, thank you :D
 
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Re: 5.11 and WDS

Sun Apr 28, 2013 12:36 am

same to me
 
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Re: 5.11 and WDS

Tue Jun 25, 2013 6:45 am

try to use the wds-mode=dynamic-mesh on both boards and check again the logs.
Are you saying that I need to switch my wds-mode=dynamic to wds-mode=dynamic-mesh with no other configuration changes will fix this issue?

I have RB800 and RB435g with a r52hn on both boards. They are right across the street from each other. Signal and CCQ are both excellent. I get a lot of...

19:55:07 wireless,debug XX:XX:XX:13:2C:0F@wlan1: EAP failure - timeout
19:55:07 wireless,info XX:XX:XX:13:2C:0F@wlan1: disconnected, 802.1x authentication failed
19:55:07 wireless,info XX:XX:XX:13:2C:0F@wlan1: connected, is AP, wants WDS
19:55:15 wireless,debug XX:XX:XX:13:2C:0F@wlan1: EAP method 13 requested, proceed
19:55:17 wireless,debug XX:XX:XX:13:2C:0F@wlan1: EAP success
20:15:19 wireless,debug XX:XX:XX:13:2C:0F@wlan1: EAP failure - timeout
20:15:19 wireless,info XX:XX:XX:13:2C:0F@wlan1: disconnected, 802.1x authentication failed
20:15:20 wireless,info XX:XX:XX:13:2C:0F@wlan1: connected, is AP, wants WDS
20:15:25 wireless,debug XX:XX:XX:13:2C:0F@wlan1: EAP method 13 requested, proceed
20:15:26 wireless,debug XX:XX:XX:13:2C:0F@wlan1: EAP success

Notice the times above?

RB800

interface wireless
name="wlan1" mtu=1500 mac-address=XX:XX:XX:13:2C:0F arp=enabled 
      interface-type=Atheros 11N mode=ap-bridge ssid="COP-Backhaul" 
      frequency=5320 band=5ghz-onlyn channel-width=20/40mhz-ht-below 
      scan-list=default wireless-protocol=unspecified wds-mode=dynamic 
      wds-default-bridge=br-backhaul wds-ignore-ssid=no bridge-mode=enabled 
      default-authentication=yes default-forwarding=yes default-ap-tx-limit=0 
      default-client-tx-limit=0 hide-ssid=no security-profile=Backhaul2 
      compression=no
interface wireless security profile Backhaul2
name="Backhaul2" mode=dynamic-keys authentication-types=wpa2-eap 
     unicast-ciphers=aes-ccm group-ciphers=aes-ccm wpa-pre-shared-key="" 
     wpa2-pre-shared-key="" supplicant-identity="" eap-methods=eap-tls 
     tls-mode=no-certificates tls-certificate=none static-algo-0=none 
     static-key-0="" static-algo-1=none static-key-1="" static-algo-2=none 
     static-key-2="" static-algo-3=none static-key-3="" 
     static-transmit-key=key-0 static-sta-private-algo=none 
     static-sta-private-key="" radius-mac-authentication=no 
     radius-mac-accounting=no radius-eap-accounting=no interim-update=0s 
     radius-mac-format=XX:XX:XX:XX:XX:XX radius-mac-mode=as-username 
     radius-mac-caching=disabled group-key-update=5m 
     management-protection=allowed management-protection-key="1x2x3x4x"
RB435g

Same as RB800

I don't want to make anymore changes that would cause me more work in the long run. I have made several and nothing has made any of my P2MP connections stay up longer than 1 to 18 hours. This one AP-AP WDS bridge has been up for 2 hours and it was installed 2 months ago! There is no explanation of why it keeps doing this. Is this a problem with WPA2 and WDS?


Thanks in advance!!

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