Mikrotik VDSL / DSL Modem?

dash · Fri Jan 22, 2016 12:18 pm

Hi guys,
I wanted to ask if there are plans to offer Mikrotik Hardware with integrated or even discrete VDSL/DSL Modem in the future? I am very confident there is a market for such a product, since there are many people that do need a full blown router but only need the Modem portion.

Currently it is impossible to get robust and simple devices that only provide Modem functionality.

Thanks

pe1chl · Sat Jan 23, 2016 11:46 am

It is unclear to me why people who need only a modem and no fullblown router would buy from MikroTik, who focus
on fullblown routers.
However, I do see some use of a MikroTik router like the RB2011 or RB3011 but with built-in VDSL modem.
How large such a market would be I cannot estimate... often internet providers include a limited functionality
modem/NAT-router with their subscription so lots of people would not want to spend money again even if they
get better routing.

The Draytek Vigor 130 is a separate VDSL modem. I use one with my RB2011 to connect to internet. It can
bridge the VDSL connection (straight or PPPoE) over to the MikroTik router where I terminate it with a PPPoE
interface.

Everything in one box would be nice, however there is a lot of expertise in VDSL modems and it may be that
a new company entering that market will have a somewhat long learning experience before the performance
is up to par with the current players.

bds1904 · Sat Jan 23, 2016 7:16 pm

An integrated VDSL modem in mikrotik products would be useless for 90% of providers. Most providers nowdays use a 802.1x certificate for authentication. The authentication certificate renders an aftermarket modem useless as it is provided on the modem by the ISP.

Sat Jan 23, 2016 8:02 pm

In the UK FTTC delivered over VDSL is no longer supplied with a modem.

Its up to the user to provide their own.

So a MikroTIk with builtin adsl/vdsl modem, or even a simple 1port modem would be great.

Nick

Sat Jan 23, 2016 9:09 pm

topic previously discussed many times on the forum.

i think integrated mikrotik dsl modem on some routers would have been great on 2008 year when dsl was on rise

2016 year
optical fiber is on rise, because that mikrotik has released the gpon sfp module.

i think its too late to invest R&D resources on dsl technologies

pe1chl · Sat Jan 23, 2016 9:16 pm

A VDSL modem as an SFP module would be the nicest. However, it may be too small to fit it in there.
Maybe an SFP module and a short cable to a small external box with some of the components and the RJ-11 connector?

It would enable the use of VDSL with some different MikroTik products without yet another power supply.

Pea · Mon Jan 25, 2016 8:45 pm

+1

I want to get rid of ISP bridged VDSL modem

Or just a small black box with RJ11 on one side and RJ45 on other side (PoE powered)

StubArea51 · Mon Jan 25, 2016 10:44 pm

I think the question of the market for DSL really depends on where you are in the world. In smaller countries, fiber is much easier to roll out and connect than it is in a larger country and the demand for DSL is low.

DSL in North America is still heavily utilized in the US, Canada and Mexico and probably will be for another 10 to 15 years because there is so much area to cover. Contrast that with a country like Latvia which is very well connected via fiber and has almost no DSL because the land area and cost is much smaller.

In fact, I had a conversation with several of the MT guys at the US MUM last year and the reason MikroTik heavily uses Ethernet in its products is due to the state of IP networking in Latvia around the time MikroTik started developing hardware in the early 2000s. Apparently after the fall of the Soviet Union, Latvia started investing in its telecommunications infrastructure and Ethernet was used to connect most of the country and DSL was not really used at all.

DSL is still heavily developed and they just reached 10 gig speeds on DSL last year:

http://arstechnica.com/information-tech ... gabit-dsl/

There is so much engineering that has to go into the modem side of xDSL technologies, i don't think MT sees a huge amount of value in entering a market that already has a very diverse field of competitors.

Mon Jan 25, 2016 10:48 pm

Using an external bridged modem never bothered us much, but what we (a phone company) wanted was an FXS interface or two for analog line delivery, but it's understandable why Mikrotik wouldn't support such a thing. Honestly, I'd rather they spend more time shoring up and advancing the features they already have than entering yet another hardware branch, especially one as radically different as DSL.

pe1chl · Sat Jan 30, 2016 11:48 am

Honestly, I'd rather they spend more time shoring up and advancing the features they already have than entering yet another hardware branch, especially one as radically different as DSL.

I agree, that is why I think it might be an idea to have DSL as an SFP module, just like is done with GPON.
However, those GPON modules are relabeled devices bought elsewhere, and I don't know if a VDSL module like that exists on the market.

Telephone: I am using a cheap (Grandstream) IP phone which connects directly on ethernet. No need for FXS port...

Zorro · Sun Jan 31, 2016 8:36 pm

judging from g.fast generations performance and alikes - i think copper still serve LOOONG time, atleast for last 150m-400m-1km "last mile" :=)
same bout DOCSIS 3.1 and other legacy things :=)
ana R&D and improvements and standardization - keep flowing, albeit slower

jober · Sat Feb 06, 2016 4:37 am

I was looking for the VDSL2 SFP solution so I could use MT as my condo and apartment solution.

This is the only thing I could find.

http://www.comnet.net/products/SFP/CL-SFP.pdf

dash · Mon Feb 15, 2016 3:47 pm

I am about to use the Draytek Vigor 130 VDSL modem now. As suggested by pe1chl (thanks). As of today it runs very well, robust and stable...

jober · Mon Feb 15, 2016 5:09 pm

We use the VC-231 VDSL2 modems. They can be paired to form a bridge with one side set in CO node. Very nice when you don't need a 8 to 24 port DSLAM.

http://www.planet.com.tw/en/product/pro ... p?id=26560

Mon Feb 15, 2016 8:26 pm

An ADSL/VDSL SFP is indeed possible.

Metanoia make a chipset and have a reference design specifically for this application.

http://www.metanoia-comm.com/product_d.php?id=21

This would be an easy way for Mikrotik to add DSL support to existing products such as the RB, CCR and CRS.

Email sales@mikrotik.com and let them know if such a product interests you.

dash · Tue Feb 16, 2016 1:05 pm

Nice find dude! I would definitely order some of these SFP VDSL modules!

jober · Tue Feb 16, 2016 4:08 pm

They have 3 types of chip sets. Two of them can operate in CPE or CO mode. I don't think the SFP can do CO mode. Not a deal killer but would be nice if it would do CO mode. I could use a 24 port SFP cage switch and mix and match modules, VDSL2, Fiber and Ethernet. I would use the RB's with SFP ports for my customer side.

mavink · Wed Feb 17, 2016 10:48 am

They have 3 types of chip sets. Two of them can operate in CPE or CO mode. I don't think the SFP can do CO mode. Not a deal killer but would be nice if it would do CO mode. I could use a 24 port SFP cage switch and mix and match modules, VDSL2, Fiber and Ethernet. I would use the RB's with SFP ports for my customer side.

That's an amazing find! Do you know of any suppliers that actually sell one of these SFP modules or have them planned?

Wed Feb 17, 2016 11:49 am

That's an amazing find! Do you know of any suppliers that actually sell one of these SFP modules or have them planned?

Metanoia only make the chipset. These are then used by the likes of Huawei, Planet and TP-Link in products that ship.

The best thing you can do is email Mikrotik sales at the above address and let them know this is a product you would buy.

Ideally Mikrotik will sell SFP using this chipset and add support to RouterOS for it. This is required to set the DSL options and monitor the line stats via the SFP modules I2C interface.

PeterFreeman · Wed Feb 17, 2016 12:38 pm

Hi all,

As Nick suggested a discrete VDSL type module would be great now that BT have stopped supplying VDSL modems in the UK for their FTTC services. Lots of ISPs in the UK have been using MikroTik for MPLS network installations, I'm sure this business will stop rapidly if they can no longer supply a single unit to site.

Perhaps SFP module for VDSL/VDSL2 support?

Thanks

Pete.

vortex · Sun Mar 06, 2016 1:02 am

I think I will downgrade from DOCSIS to vectoring (not because I don't need the speed or price, and TV offer would be better, actually).

A GBIC would be nice. Vectoring ist definitely not on the way out, but the opposite.

OpenFiber · Thu Mar 10, 2016 1:36 am

+1 for VDSL2 modem option

The SFP option looks very nice (combined with a RB2011 for example).

We currently use RB2011 with a Draytek 130

Zorro · Mon Mar 14, 2016 2:07 am

gFast2 was quite fast thing.
so i would call moving from DOCSIS "downgrade" if you ISP - support and provide gFast xDSL speeds.
unless very recent DOCSIS 3.1 employed in "fat" bonded modes, which is quite unusual even for docsis 2, generally.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G.fast
the only downside is - limited number of offered modems(DSLAM choices are ~ enough(for practical usage)).

vortex · Mon Mar 14, 2016 4:20 am

It is a downgrade from 500/50 to 100/20.

Where it might be an upgrade is in actual bandwidth to other continents.

Or latency.

And support.

And TV, as I said.

Mon Mar 14, 2016 6:13 am

judging from g.fast generations performance and alikes - i think copper still serve LOOONG time, atleast for last 150m-400m-1km "last mile" :=)
same bout DOCSIS 3.1 and other legacy things :=)
ana R&D and improvements and standardization - keep flowing, albeit slower

anybody thinking this way about copper pair surely has not see the problems about isolation on outdoor cooper wires or/and induction ac or dc problems

i think docsis has a better future because is more resistant to interference

Zorro · Thu May 05, 2016 7:16 am

judging from g.fast generations performance and alikes - i think copper still serve LOOONG time, atleast for last 150m-400m-1km "last mile" :=)
same bout DOCSIS 3.1 and other legacy things :=)
ana R&D and improvements and standardization - keep flowing, albeit slower
anybody thinking this way about copper pair surely has not see the problems about isolation on outdoor cooper wires or/and induction ac or dc problems

i think docsis has a better future because is more resistant to interference

not over optical networks, especially conventional "active optical networks", reasonaly dominating market for number of advantages.
as for g.Fast and g.Fast 2 comparisons - i think at comparable speeds - amount of interference would be minimal unless you're talking about Very huge/dense cables and/or very high speed, yet unusual even for g.fast endpoints, sadly.
also ethernet had drawbacks over docsis only if you use unshielded cables, which is allowed only for OFFICE used Only(NOT for residental deployment. NOT for outdoor deployment. NOT for "last mile" cable/conversion).
and STP and Cat7 cables - quite EMI-resistant and emit - Much less. same about 6e derrivativers with improvements.
so far DOCSIS is extremely handy as "legacy conversion" thing where problematic technically to lay any more cables at cost of Very segmented networks and reduced # of consumer per aggregating modem/gate, its suffer anyway with HUGE issues both on L1 and L2 by basic nature of this technology, implied by both shared medium and control methods. however in DOCSIS 3.0 and 3.1 derrivatives - they shifted away from CSMA remnats compltely(TDMA and S-CDMA mix in upstream - considered relatimely low-latency with predictible response)to slightly reduce issues on L2 and frequency management in DOCSIS - improved in 3.0 aswell as BPi/SEC improvements, jointly developed with alikes in WiMax - contributed(along with other ethernet sig's memberss)to all 802.1x development/improvements and lead to 802.1x-2010 creation eventually(and all those "PortSec", "MacSec" things and other stuff aside that, ajaced around 802.1x-2010 which ough to reinfroce it Further).
if you had to "put DOSIS 3.0 to extremes" in terms of speed - amount of customers per aggregating modem - become quite small, up to 16 or even 8 per one and todays 64(todays even 512 isn't uncommon in some networks)become "not a option" anymore to achieve "advertised performance" and to go Further "modem per block" or even "modem per building storey" become a MUST. DOCSIS did not scale much and going up only by bonding and bonding imply pre-occupied/converged amounts of HW/spectrum/time "per customer" become bigger in modem-space/freq/time.

from angle/point you speaking i think technology like HomePlug would fit well. but modern implementations like ITU-T G.hn developed VERY slowly in favor of DOCSIS and alikes. which isn't good much

HomePNA 3.1 also support PHY's working over Coax, aside twisted pairs(random of. from phone lines, power lines and whatever else mix of 2-8-12 pairs(depend devices used for)).
so G.Fast-grade HomePNA -derrivative for Coax would be better, yep. if you insist on such medium for some reasons and dislike Ethernet derrrivatives like HomePlug/EoC.

troffasky · Tue May 10, 2016 7:25 pm

anybody thinking this way about copper pair surely has not see the problems about isolation on outdoor cooper wires or/and induction ac or dc problems

i think docsis has a better future because is more resistant to interference

Which is all very well, but try explaining that to an ISP with millions of copper pairs deployed. ISPs are going to wring every last $/£/€ out of their pairs, and that means DSL for the foreseeable future, and that means that *I* need something small, cheap and simple to interface my ethernet-only Mikrotiks with the outside world.
Now that the incumbent operator in my country has stopped supplying VDSL modems with new installs [and doesn't seem to have reduced the costs accordingly] this search has become more acute. The Draytek 130 will do the job but it's twice the price of the routers I deploy which irks me somewhat.

Balmungmp5 · Sun May 15, 2016 1:42 am

DSL is still everywhere here in the states. Also it's frequently the only network medium available in an area due to the virtual monopolies ISPs have. Adding DSL Modulation/Demodulation to RouterOS would be extremely helpful for our company.

Zorro · Mon May 23, 2016 12:51 pm

DSL G.Fast stays in telecom "for long". not only in both americans and in Asia.
after G.Fast 2 there was proposed G.Fast 3 evolution and etc i think.
but trancievers/modems/Phy become(cause more complex modulation, error control and other improvements) more complicated/sophisticated/power-hugry so both amount of transistors and need to make them over 28nm or even 16nm, 14nm, 10nm wafer chips - make it slightly more expensive than usually DSL are(even for "mass-produced devices")because "below 28nm" CMOS semiconductors manufactoring capacity - quite limited, yet.

Toigoweb · Mon Jun 06, 2016 12:52 am

http://www.metanoia-comm.com/product_d.php?id=21

Inviato dal mio XT1562 utilizzando Tapatalk

hoboristi · Sat Jun 25, 2016 10:14 pm

http://www.metanoia-comm.com/product_d.php?id=21

Inviato dal mio XT1562 utilizzando Tapatalk

Do you have any experience with that sfp?

pe1chl · Mon Jun 27, 2016 4:48 pm

http://www.metanoia-comm.com/product_d.php?id=21

Inviato dal mio XT1562 utilizzando Tapatalk
Do you have any experience with that sfp?

I think it does not actually exist.
It is a proof-of-concept model made by a chip designer hoping that a hardware manufacturer would be making
these and they would be selling the chips to them.
I asked them to name a manufacturer that makes these devices and I did not even get a reply.
Vapourware...

dragon2611 · Mon Jun 27, 2016 7:46 pm

Draytek have just made a Router/VDSL modem on a PCI-E card, but don't know about pricing yet but it can also bridge, if it's NIC driver is supported by routerOS then maybe X86 builds could be done using it if you did want an all in one box.

troffasky · Sat Aug 06, 2016 12:27 am

If it's big enough to fit a PCIE card in, then the box is too big for me. MicroPCIE would work.

jonthorpe · Thu Nov 10, 2016 12:11 pm

Looks like these are available:
https://www.versatek.com/product/vx-160 ... CPE+Module

Anyone know if they might work with a MikroTik device?

pe1chl · Thu Nov 10, 2016 12:18 pm

I noticed that too when I searched again for this information yesterday!
I am very tempted to order one, but it would probably easiest when someone in the US did that and experimented a bit.

What I could not find from the docs on that site (and on the original metanoia site) is how one can communicate with
the module once it is in an SFP slot. If this is done using IP over ethernet, it should be possible to configure a MikroTik
in such a way that this device would work and be usable (configurable, possible to monitor e.g. the connection rate, etc).
There is some mention of a configuration program (probably only for Windows), but not how it accesses the module.

Tomorrow I will go to the MUM in Amsterdam, and when there is opportunity I will talk to MikroTik people about this
subject. (if it would work, and if they would be interested in selling such a device under the MikroTik name similar to
what they do for other SFP devices including the GPON)

jonthorpe · Thu Nov 10, 2016 10:14 pm

Will be very interested to hear what they say.

It looks like the OEM for these is this company:
http://www.proscend.com/en-gb/

pe1chl · Fri Nov 11, 2016 8:25 pm

I think I have convinced the two technical people at the info desk (active on this forum as well!), but
of course it remains to be seen if they in turn can convince their product manager...

jober · Fri Nov 11, 2016 10:59 pm

I love the idea that I can use a RB962UiGS-5HacT2HnT for all my connection types. I have customers we connect to with Cat5 that we can plug right into the MT and if we run fiber we can slide in a SFP fiber module and now we can use the SFP VDSL2 module for customers that only have telephone wires ran to their units.

https://www.versatek.com/product/vx-160 ... CPE+Module

pe1chl · Sat Nov 12, 2016 11:13 am

Are you in the US? Would you be willing to order one and just try it?

jober · Sat Nov 12, 2016 6:27 pm

Versa is waiting on stock. As soon as I can get one I will.

pe1chl · Sun Nov 13, 2016 1:36 pm

Versa is waiting on stock

Ok I hope this does not mean it is all vapourware...

jober · Sun Nov 13, 2016 4:44 pm

This was Versa's reply to my email.
"Hello James,
Currently, we have a pair for verification. We have not try with Mikrotik yet but sounds like a good idea. Should go into production real soon."

dragon2611 · Mon Nov 14, 2016 11:24 pm

My proxmox host running the CHR has a Draytek vigornic 132 in bridge mode for modem (It's essentially a vigor 130 on a PCI-E card)

pe1chl · Tue Nov 15, 2016 10:39 am

My proxmox host running the CHR has a Draytek vigornic 132 in bridge mode for modem (It's essentially a vigor 130 on a PCI-E card)

That is nice for using on a PC platform.
How does it appear in the host system? As an ethernet card? Which driver?

jonthorpe · Wed Nov 16, 2016 5:49 am

Interesting reply from Proscend.

We have not tested the interoperability with Mikrotik/Ubiquiti Edge routers. The basic requirements/configurations of SFP interface on the Host Device include Serdes(Not SGMII), 1G Forced Mode(Not Auto-Negotiation Mode) and power requirements(3.3V, 700mA). We request our customers to send us host devices for interoperability tests in our lab.

We have only limited quantity of 180-C/180-R available at this moment for sample purpose. 180-T which can support G.Inp and G.Vector will become available in Feb, 2017. Neverthelesss,180-R can serve as an evaluation version of 180-T. You can try it out the interoperability with your host device as well as the VDSL2 IP DSLAMs. By Feb of 2017, 180-R and 180-T will be the same hardware but loaded with different firmware to serve different applications.

Wed Nov 16, 2016 9:47 am

FYI all of these are based on the same Metanoia chipset.

pe1chl · Wed Nov 16, 2016 12:19 pm

Interesting reply from Proscend.

That is interesting indeed!
It appears I have to wait at least until february because I require VDSL2 with vectoring.
Hopefully MikroTik will do some evaluation as well, it appears to be easiest that they get some test devices and
test them in their existing hardware lab and report on compatability.

n4p · Fri Dec 02, 2016 2:56 pm

I really hope that this would be available in few days.
Currently that's the only issue that i didn't use mikrotik routers/switch in home area.
Because I need few more devices, switch, router, modem. And so it would be able to do all with one.

pe1chl · Fri Dec 02, 2016 7:07 pm

I really hope that this would be available in few days.

Forget about that! The device is predicted to be available from the factory next february, that schedule could slip.
Then it has to be evaluated by MikroTik, possibly software has to be adapted, and a distributor contract has to
be signed, devices made with MikroTik label, and shipped via distributors. IF it all works well and it is decided to move
forward with this.

You have to be patient. The only thing I can assure it that it has the attention of several people within MikroTik.

n4p · Fri Dec 02, 2016 7:15 pm

I speak about the sfp what would be already available and not an vdsl modem included in the mikrotik hardware. Possible that this will be sooner available?

Or there any other way i can do this? I already searched for mini-pci cards but doesn't found one.

pe1chl · Fri Dec 02, 2016 8:26 pm

I speak about the sfp what would be already available

It is not available! it will be available in february next year. hopefully. and then it will have to be tested.
At the moment I am using a Draytek Vigor 130 VDSL modem, it works OK.

Steveocee · Sat Dec 03, 2016 4:23 pm

I'm watching this with great interest. I have VDSL connection into one of my places and am currently using a HG612 but it's bulky and messy and don't want 2 boxes where I could be using 1.

HiltonT · Thu Dec 15, 2016 12:25 am

Now that the Abbott/Turnbull government has decimated the NBN here in 'Srayamate and turned it into last century's VDSL2+ (with Vectoring) network, having a MikroTik-compatible (and preferably MikroTik-provided) VDSL2+ GBIC module would be awesome for our Not Broadband Network deployments here. It will save us buying Draytek 130 units for every site, running them in Bridge Mode and then having a suitable MikroTik router behind them.

turnip · Fri Dec 16, 2016 5:55 am

Now that the Abbott/Turnbull government has decimated the NBN here in 'Srayamate and turned it into last century's VDSL2+ (with Vectoring) network, having a MikroTik-compatible (and preferably MikroTik-provided) VDSL2+ GBIC module would be awesome for our Not Broadband Network deployments here. It will save us buying Draytek 130 units for every site, running them in Bridge Mode and then having a suitable MikroTik router behind them.

That's what I want them for as well. I used a few Draytek 120's for ADSL clients, until they started breaking and I replaced them with TP-Link TD-8817s. Makes me a bit nervous of using the 130. I've only used one so far, and it worked fine, but that's not a very scientific test.

Fri Dec 16, 2016 11:06 am

The DV130's are OK. The big let down is the PSU they come with, they seem to either fail or the router starts losing its config.

We just throw the PSU away now and use a Meanwell GSM40A which are solid.

Slash · Fri Dec 16, 2016 11:59 am

Please note that VDSL is widely spread in countries like Germany. The idea with a SFP VDSL modem is very good as it is a modular solution.
I hope the Mikrotik team is considering this option.

dragon2611 · Sat Dec 17, 2016 1:48 pm

My proxmox host running the CHR has a Draytek vigornic 132 in bridge mode for modem (It's essentially a vigor 130 on a PCI-E card)
That is nice for using on a PC platform.
How does it appear in the host system? As an ethernet card? Which driver?

Sorry had only just seen this.

Shows up as RTL8111/8168/8411 PCI Express Gigabit Ethernet Controller and uses the r8169 drivers in my Linux (Proxmox) machine.

kathampy · Fri Jan 27, 2017 11:00 am

There is some mention of a configuration program (probably only for Windows), but not how it accesses the module.

I think the "EBM program" is the same as "Ethernet Boot and Management" mentioned further down in the spec sheet. I wonder if it's simply accessible via a default IP address where you can configure the VPI / VCI for the EoA bridge.

marrold · Fri Jan 27, 2017 12:29 pm

+1 for an SFP based VDSL module

Kalpar · Tue Jan 31, 2017 9:19 pm

There is some mention of a configuration program (probably only for Windows), but not how it accesses the module.
I think the "EBM program" is the same as "Ethernet Boot and Management" mentioned further down in the spec sheet. I wonder if it's simply accessible via a default IP address where you can configure the VPI / VCI for the EoA bridge.

You can search for it in this patent doc...
http://www.google.com/patents/US20160241293

"Innovative chip boot procedure through SGMII Ethernet boot and management, implementations in accordance with the present disclosure can save the I2C needs from traditional SFP interface, and still efficiently provide the required manufacture information, vendor code and management information base."

"...by exchanging in-band Ethernet packets."

So its a special Ethernet based management protocol.

troffasky · Thu Feb 02, 2017 10:53 pm

If so, this needs to be accessible remotely, ie through the usual RouterOS management tools.

pe1chl · Fri Feb 03, 2017 12:17 am

If so, this needs to be accessible remotely, ie through the usual RouterOS management tools.

That would be nice, but when it can be accessed using a (temporary) bridge between the SFP slot and an ethernet port,
and a Windows laptop connected to that, I would already be very happy.

expert · Fri Feb 03, 2017 8:55 am

it will be available in february next year. hopefully. and then it will have to be tested.

It's February now, any news?

rwrocket · Thu Feb 09, 2017 4:35 am

+1
I need this yesterday

pe1chl · Thu Feb 09, 2017 11:06 am

Forum member jonthorpe has been in contact with the supplier, see message #46 in this thread.
Hopefully he will hear from them when it has actually become available, which was predicted to be this month.
Of course then it still has to be tested in a MikroTik to find if it actually works and is workable without RouterOS
changes. When those are required, we depend on MikroTik implementing them.

SystemErrorMessage · Sun Feb 12, 2017 9:52 pm

i have something to add to this, VDSL SFP modules have popped up and mellanox which now has bought tilera which designs the chips used in the CCRs makes one as well. Rather than a seperate modem having SFP modules are preferable because in my experience modems arent as reliable. MT hardware will run for years without having or rebooting but rarely can modems as the quality and designs from different companies are different. VDSL SFP modules will remove some of the unreliability such as the PSU and other parts that would be redundant and useless.

Slash · Mon Feb 13, 2017 7:42 pm

Hi, I contacted Mikrotik support with the question if they are considering such VDSL SFP modems and they stated that they successfully tested Metanoia MT-V5311 VDSL2 SFP module samples with an empty eeprom and that they are looking at the options. I guess everybody interested should write a mail to the sales department with the same request to show that there is a market for such devices.

pe1chl · Mon Feb 13, 2017 10:44 pm

Well, I think the fact that they acquired samples and tested them is an indication that they are well aware of this.
Let's not overwhelm them with unnecessary work.

Tue Feb 14, 2017 5:58 am

I would just like to say, it is CRITICAL that if you get a Metanoia module that the EEPROM is empty.

A lot of the Metanoia re-sellers will program these to look like a ZX module, and the Mikrotik will NOT let this work.

pe1chl · Tue Feb 14, 2017 10:55 am

A lot of the Metanoia re-sellers will program these to look like a ZX module, and the Mikrotik will NOT let this work.

Why is that? Is this something that MikroTik could handle in RouterOS?

dravnieks · Wed Feb 15, 2017 7:04 pm

+1 for RB-951Ui-2HnD and RB952Ui-5ac2nD-TC with built in VDSL port. Currently we use those routers in pair with SXT-Lite5-AC powered trough single power supply. We have wholesale access to largest VDSL network in country, but we have to supply our own VDSL modems. Single unit with full RouterOS functionality would be awesome. Having built in POTS for voip would make my day.

pe1chl · Wed Feb 15, 2017 7:50 pm

+1 for RB-951Ui-2HnD and RB952Ui-5ac2nD-TC with built in VDSL port.

Did you follow this and other threads about VDSL? That will not happen. And I can understand it, it would require new expertise
and after making 2 such routers the people would ask "please a 3011 with VDSL", "please a CCR with VDSL" etc etc.
What we are concentrating on now is to get a VDSL SFP supported and hopefully sold by MikroTik.
So any router with SFP, like hEX PoE, hAP ac, RB2011, RB3011, CCR can get optional VDSL.

SystemErrorMessage · Fri Feb 17, 2017 6:02 am

+1 for RB-951Ui-2HnD and RB952Ui-5ac2nD-TC with built in VDSL port.
Did you follow this and other threads about VDSL? That will not happen. And I can understand it, it would require new expertise
and after making 2 such routers the people would ask "please a 3011 with VDSL", "please a CCR with VDSL" etc etc.
What we are concentrating on now is to get a VDSL SFP supported and hopefully sold by MikroTik.
So any router with SFP, like hEX PoE, hAP ac, RB2011, RB3011, CCR can get optional VDSL.

That is unlikely. With SFP you can use various things and vdsl 2 SFP modules are already available for use though not sure if mikrotik sells them. SFP and ethernet together make for a very good router as it gives you a lot of flexibility and allowing routerOS to directly handle the interface. The other point is that modems arent on the WAN side so you can secure things better.

Jaspur · Wed Mar 15, 2017 8:28 pm

Any one know where i can buy these Metanoia MT-V5311 ?
I would be more than happy to test this.
I a MT can't handle it something else can

I just need this to work on some kind of hardware with SFP.

breili · Wed Mar 15, 2017 8:52 pm

Versatek have them in stock. https://www.versatek.com/product/vx-160 ... ems-co-rt/
I hear Allnet (allnet.de) are investigating them too and might have something in Q4 2017.

hennessy · Tue Mar 21, 2017 2:08 am

Now that the Abbott/Turnbull government has decimated the NBN here in 'Srayamate and turned it into last century's VDSL2+ (with Vectoring) network, having a MikroTik-compatible (and preferably MikroTik-provided) VDSL2+ GBIC module would be awesome for our Not Broadband Network deployments here. It will save us buying Draytek 130 units for every site, running them in Bridge Mode and then having a suitable MikroTik router behind them.

Hi there , just a quick question about using Draytek 130 units in bridge mode for NBN connections using MT's : do you know if they work for NBN providers that use 802.1q VLAN ID 100 settings for their NBN FTTN services ?

turnip · Tue Mar 21, 2017 7:19 am

I can confirm that the Draytek Vigor 130 connected to NBN using VLAN100, but it wasn't in bridge mode. I was just testing the connection before the customer moves office. I don't forsee any issues when I put it in bridge mode and introduce the RB3011, I'll just create a VLAN interface and attach the PPPoE interface to that.

pe1chl · Tue Mar 21, 2017 4:49 pm

You can also keep the ethernet interface untagged in the router and add the VLAN tag in the Draytek 130.

n4p · Thu Apr 20, 2017 7:51 pm

Any news out there? Would be happy if this is working at the end of the next year

I got an outstanding project there.

pe1chl · Fri May 12, 2017 5:19 pm

Any developments?
Does someone already have working devices?
Is there any news of possible support in MikroTik routers or even selling them under MikroTik label?

Milotop · Mon May 15, 2017 1:07 pm

I have received a sample order from Proscend (180-C, 180-R and 180-T). My goal is to get these working with traditional DSLAMs from KPN in the Netherlands. So far the only thing i can confirm is that the 180-R module is recognized by an RB2011UiAS-2HnD-IN. Will update this topic after more testing.

pe1chl · Mon May 15, 2017 4:48 pm

That is great!
Is this only for your personal interest or do you have some project or intend to resell them?

Milotop · Mon May 15, 2017 7:29 pm

I intend to resell them as a replacement for traditional ADSL(2+) and VDSL modems like Draytek. It'd be cheaper and more efficient to run the SFP connectors.

pe1chl · Mon May 15, 2017 7:42 pm

Ok I would be interested in getting one, also for some testing.
I have a VVDSL line to local streetcabinet, 100/30 Mbit/s, XS4ALL internet (PPPoE on VLAN6, IPv4 and IPv6).
I have a RB2011UiAS-2HnD-IN router and a Draytek 130.

Milotop · Wed May 17, 2017 5:47 pm

Hi everyone,

these are the xDSL ATM settings of the modems mentioned above:

pe1chl · Wed May 17, 2017 8:44 pm

Those ATM settings are not for (V)VDSL(2), they are for ADSL(2)(+) only.
With VDSL, Ethernet encapsulation is used instead of ATM.
Hopefully that table would be only a default, as the settings here would have
to be VPI/VCI 8/48 and Encapsulation VC-MUX. However, I am not interested in ADSL
so it would be no problem if only ethernet can be used, but it has to allow VLAN tagging.

Milotop · Wed May 17, 2017 8:58 pm

Yes those are only for ATM DSL. Proscend says that the ATM settings cannot be changed. If your configuration is not listed, you can't use it. Only VDSL will work.

rendrag · Wed May 17, 2017 11:38 pm

Sooo, you've had them three days... Do they work for VDSL?

I can't imagine having these things for more than an hour without having tried to get my VDSL up and running with them

C'mon man, you're killing me with the suspense!

Milotop · Thu May 18, 2017 12:18 pm

Yes yes apologies for taking so long... I have to make an appointment with a customer who has VDSL because I don't have a new one to install, and our office runs on fiber exclusively...

I will update this when I can!

pe1chl · Thu May 18, 2017 2:20 pm

You can mail one to me... add @amsat.org after my username to get my mail address.

Toigoweb · Wed May 24, 2017 8:51 pm

Any news about that?

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Slash · Mon May 29, 2017 10:09 pm

Just found this at Allnet, but can only be ordered by resellers:
https://shop.allnet.de/detail/index/sAr ... egory/1986

psannz · Tue May 30, 2017 10:29 am

Just found this at Allnet, but can only be ordered by resellers:
https://shop.allnet.de/detail/index/sAr ... egory/1986

Just the thing I was looking for myself. Need to connect 2x VDSL 50/10 connections to my CCR1016-12S-S1+

Finally heard back from a a distributor who sells those. Supposedly they'll be available within the next week for around 75€ excl. VAT

pe1chl · Tue May 30, 2017 12:29 pm

We all can't wait to hear your test results!

Milotop · Wed May 31, 2017 4:19 pm

Hi all,

I can now confirm that the 180-R and 180-T modules work with Mikrotik to connect to VDSL. See the screenshots for interface settings and traffic indication. The only change i needed to make was to turn off Auto Negotiation on the SFP interface. The module does 1Gbit/s Full Duplex.

TeamViewer_2017-05-31_14-56-46.png

TeamViewer_2017-05-31_14-56-55.png

TeamViewer_2017-05-31_14-57-19.png

Milotop · Wed May 31, 2017 4:26 pm

UPDATE:

I have reached 40mbit/s download and 9mbit/s upload speed on the 180-R and 180-T connectors, which is the maximum rate this customer should be getting. Unfortunately I can't test higher speeds at this moment.

pe1chl · Wed May 31, 2017 4:59 pm

Great!!

I presume you further created a VLAN interface on top of the SFP, and a PPPoE interface attached to that VLAN?
(or maybe DHCP client when that provider does not use PPPoE)

Is there any way to access the connection info from the router or from a machine behind the router?
(to see the line mode, actual/attainable connection rate, SNR, number of re-trains, etc)

Milotop · Wed May 31, 2017 5:07 pm

Great!!

I presume you further created a VLAN interface on top of the SFP, and a PPPoE interface attached to that VLAN?
(or maybe DHCP client when that provider does not use PPPoE)

Is there any way to access the connection info from the router or from a machine behind the router?
(to see the line mode, actual/attainable connection rate, SNR, number of re-trains, etc)

Yes, I had to create a VLAN on the SFP interface and authenticate with PPPoE before I got any traffic running. This is standard with most VDSL connections here.

I haven't yet learned about the actual connector, I don't know if it has an (accessible) interface or not.

blimpi · Thu Jun 01, 2017 12:10 pm

Welcome, first post here, and thanks for all the useful information!

The modules seem to hit the European retail market. I pre-ordered one here: https://www.innet24.de/Netzwerk-aktive- ... 41114.html
I'll report back as soon as I verfied operation in my hAP AC.

Milotop · Thu Jun 08, 2017 3:43 pm

UPDATE: 180-T supports Vectoring, 180-R does not.

mtedo · Fri Jun 09, 2017 1:46 am

I've got one of these 180-T's also, however I'm testing against ADSL instead of VDSL - anyone else got this working? Can't seem to get it sync'ing - RB2011 picks up the sfp, and I've set auto-neg off and all, but the sfp can't seem to sync (it's entirely possible the dslam isn't supported, though I have no control over that unfortunately)

Milotop · Fri Jun 09, 2017 1:50 am

Can you get a hold of the dslam specs? I posted the supported adsl modes on page 2.

mtedo · Fri Jun 09, 2017 2:02 am

yeah going to have to try and find out from the provider I guess - yes I did see those specs, thanks. using vpi/vci 8/35, so created a vlan8 interface off the sfp but that hasn't worked either in getting sync. I've got an annex-M capable connection, so I'm wondering if that might be causing issues?

n4p · Fri Jun 09, 2017 7:07 am

@milotop
Where did you get your sfp of type 180-T?
I also wanna order one and wanna try if it works with our specs.

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n4p · Fri Jul 07, 2017 11:25 am

Any News out there?
Is the VDSL SFP now working with Mikrotik correctly?

Milotop · Mon Jul 10, 2017 6:54 pm

n4p: I got mine at proscend.com. They work just fine with Mikrotik, see page 2 of this topic for screenshots etc.

breili · Wed Aug 09, 2017 12:14 am

@mtedo btw. note "30a without ADSL backward" from the spec sheet. That might be your problem.

On an different note, has anyone got line stats out via some means ?

NiMiK · Fri Aug 25, 2017 3:08 am

Versatek have them in stock. https://www.versatek.com/product/vx-160 ... ems-co-rt/
I hear Allnet (allnet.de) are investigating them too and might have something in Q4 2017.

I am actually employed by Versa Technology and we have received quite a bit of inquiries and sales for the VDSL2 SFP modules. I have tested the units with an RB2011 and CCR1009 but we have received reports that the RB3011 does not work with the modules at the moment. We are working with Proscend/Metanoia on this. So far, they have not found any issues with synchronization or throughput as long as the SFP interface is manually set.

turnip · Fri Aug 25, 2017 9:41 am

Duxtel in Australia are also working on it. They'll have some available in the next few weeks for testing and use on internal networks. Still needs more compliance testing done before we can connect them to the National Broadband Network.
https://shop.duxtel.com.au/product_info ... cts_id=489 <-LRE, CO/RT pair
https://shop.duxtel.com.au/product_info ... cts_id=488 <-Telco CPE

Milotop · Fri Aug 25, 2017 12:30 pm

Versatek have them in stock. https://www.versatek.com/product/vx-160 ... ems-co-rt/
I hear Allnet (allnet.de) are investigating them too and might have something in Q4 2017.
I am actually employed by Versa Technology and we have received quite a bit of inquiries and sales for the VDSL2 SFP modules. I have tested the units with an RB2011 and CCR1009 but we have received reports that the RB3011 does not work with the modules at the moment. We are working with Proscend/Metanoia on this. So far, they have not found any issues with synchronization or throughput as long as the SFP interface is manually set.

I can counter the RB3011 comment because I have actually made it work with one of those (RB3011 + 180-T).

NiMiK · Sat Aug 26, 2017 2:18 am

Milotop, can you share a screenshot of the SFP interface? We received one report of a "Rx Lose" status. Wondering if you experienced that as well.

Milotop · Sat Aug 26, 2017 3:02 am

Milotop, can you share a screenshot of the SFP interface? We received one report of a "Rx Lose" status. Wondering if you experienced that as well.

I posted screenshots on page 2:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=104109&start=50#p600823

glenno · Sat Aug 26, 2017 7:57 am

Can you extract any VDSL stats via snmp? I'm thinking sync speed, line dB etc.

NiMiK · Sat Aug 26, 2017 10:17 am

Milotop, can you share a screenshot of the SFP interface? We received one report of a "Rx Lose" status. Wondering if you experienced that as well.
I posted screenshots on page 2:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=104109&start=50#p600823

Thanks! Wasn't sure which router board you were using. I'll be doing more tests with these against Broadcom, Metanoia, Ikanos and Infineon based VDSL2 DSLAMs. Line stats will be posted shortly with various distances once I get back to the office if anyone is interested. We have also sent 2 units direct to Mikrotik today. Not sure if they will be testing these as well.

NiMiK · Thu Aug 31, 2017 4:01 am

Here are some screenshots off one of our Metanoia based VDSL2 DSLAM linked to the SFP module at 1m, 304m, 609m, 914m and 1,219m. This was tested over physical CAT3 lines in our office. Apologies for the low resolution screenshots.

160RT_1M.pdf

160RT_304M.pdf

160RT_609M.pdf

160RT_914M.pdf

160RT_1219M.pdf

pe1chl · Thu Aug 31, 2017 11:26 am

I am actually employed by Versa Technology and we have received quite a bit of inquiries and sales for the VDSL2 SFP modules.

Versatek has the product "VX-160CE VDSL2 SFP Modem (Remote Telco Grade)".
Is this originally a 180-R or 180-T? I need the 180-T that supports vectoring.

NiMiK · Thu Aug 31, 2017 9:47 pm

I am actually employed by Versa Technology and we have received quite a bit of inquiries and sales for the VDSL2 SFP modules.
Versatek has the product "VX-160CE VDSL2 SFP Modem (Remote Telco Grade)".
Is this originally a 180-R or 180-T? I need the 180-T that supports vectoring.

pe1chl,

The Versa VX-160CE is the same build as the 180-T. We're expecting 200 units in mid September.

pe1chl · Thu Aug 31, 2017 9:56 pm

Thanks. Today I checked the German (I think) store that also has them but they are out of stock as well.
Will have to be patient...

NiMiK · Thu Aug 31, 2017 10:04 pm

Many resellers are also waiting patiently for these units including us. Our ETD to our office is 9/10. A majority from this shipment has been held for customer back orders.

WaauBau · Wed Sep 06, 2017 8:06 pm

Versatek have them in stock. https://www.versatek.com/product/vx-160 ... ems-co-rt/
I hear Allnet (allnet.de) are investigating them too and might have something in Q4 2017.
I am actually employed by Versa Technology and we have received quite a bit of inquiries and sales for the VDSL2 SFP modules. I have tested the units with an RB2011 and CCR1009 but we have received reports that the RB3011 does not work with the modules at the moment. We are working with Proscend/Metanoia on this. So far, they have not found any issues with synchronization or throughput as long as the SFP interface is manually set.
I can counter the RB3011 comment because I have actually made it work with one of those (RB3011 + 180-T).

Milotop how did you get that to work on RB3011 ?

I have tried these Procend 180-T on a RB3011, but there it shows RX Lose. i Have 2 of these and both show RX Lose on RB3011.
On the RB962UiGS the same modules work fine.

idlemind · Fri Sep 08, 2017 12:59 am

What are people paying for one of these SFP units? It would seem I need the T model to connect to an ADSL service and replace the provider leased modem correct?

glenno · Fri Sep 08, 2017 1:55 am

What are people paying for one of these SFP units? It would seem I need the T model to connect to an ADSL service and replace the provider leased modem correct?

Prices I was quoted are:

180-T (Telco Version)
US$ 90/PC based on sample order.
US$ 50/PC based on 100~999 PCS (MOQ=100 PCS)
US$ 45/PC based on 1,000+ PCS

Plus freight from Taiwan.

idlemind · Fri Sep 08, 2017 2:02 am

Thanks, can you confirm the tell version is the unit I'd want?

Milotop · Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:46 pm

Versatek have them in stock. https://www.versatek.com/product/vx-160 ... ems-co-rt/
I hear Allnet (allnet.de) are investigating them too and might have something in Q4 2017.
I am actually employed by Versa Technology and we have received quite a bit of inquiries and sales for the VDSL2 SFP modules. I have tested the units with an RB2011 and CCR1009 but we have received reports that the RB3011 does not work with the modules at the moment. We are working with Proscend/Metanoia on this. So far, they have not found any issues with synchronization or throughput as long as the SFP interface is manually set.
I can counter the RB3011 comment because I have actually made it work with one of those (RB3011 + 180-T).

Milotop how did you get that to work on RB3011 ?

I have tried these Procend 180-T on a RB3011, but there it shows RX Lose. i Have 2 of these and both show RX Lose on RB3011.
On the RB962UiGS the same modules work fine.

I didn't see the RX Lose that you saw. I simply plugged it in, booted the RB3011 and changed the SFP module's speed to 1Gbit/s full duplex. I didn't need to do anything else. You might have received a broken SFP module or RB3011.

Thanks, can you confirm the tell version is the unit I'd want?

For ADSL please see the picture I posted on page 2 specifying the supported ADSL modes.

bajodel · Sun Oct 08, 2017 10:42 am

any feedback from live/prod systems using these sfp modules?

AzAel76 · Mon Oct 09, 2017 1:52 am

Got the Procend 180-T last week, plugged it into a RB960PGS and everything looks fine, however i have not had the chance to do further testing or connect it to my dslam yet.

I will post some results later this week once i have done some testing.

bajodel · Tue Oct 10, 2017 7:44 am

Got the Procend 180-T ..[cut].. I will post some results..

Interesting, I'll wait for news.

Have anyone links of EU/shops where these modules are available? thanks..

mistry7 · Tue Oct 10, 2017 9:32 pm

this set http://www.proscend.com/en-gb/product/vdsl2/180cr.html works fine
in HAPac, you have to set the SFP Interface to 1GBit Manuela but they work...

n4p · Wed Oct 11, 2017 10:50 pm

Got the Procend 180-T ..[cut].. I will post some results..
Interesting, I'll wait for news.

Have anyone links of EU/shops where these modules are available? thanks..

Yeah, that would be very interesting. I am already in contact with Allnet but they mean that they can't ship before Q1/2018.

So i hope anybody got another reseller. US would also be fine.

Thanks!

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Milotop · Fri Oct 13, 2017 9:54 am

Got the Procend 180-T ..[cut].. I will post some results..
Interesting, I'll wait for news.

Have anyone links of EU/shops where these modules are available? thanks..
Yeah, that would be very interesting. I am already in contact with Allnet but they mean that they can't ship before Q1/2018.

So i hope anybody got another reseller. US would also be fine.

Thanks!

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Proscend endorses Versatek for US distribution:

https://www.versatek.com/product/vx-160 ... lco-grade/

They just restocked apparently.

bajodel · Sat Oct 14, 2017 12:42 am

Proscend endorses Versatek for US distribution:
https://www.versatek.com/product/vx-160 ... lco-grade/
They just restocked apparently.

I must check if they ship to EU, thank you anyway..

pe1chl · Sat Oct 14, 2017 11:28 am

I must check if they ship to EU, thank you anyway..

They are a distributor, and they list a couple of resellers.
Black Box is active worldwide, however despite them being listed as a reseller I cannot find this item in their catalog.
Maybe ring your local Black Box support number?

mistry7 · Sat Oct 14, 2017 1:37 pm

waiting for stock

http://www.mikrotik-shop.de/Interfaces/ ... :1896.html

patrick7 · Thu Oct 19, 2017 12:59 am

Will we see DSL modems soon?

[admin@sw2] /interface dsl> set 
Change properties of one or several items.

<numbers> -- List of item numbers
arp -- Address Resolution Protocol
arp-timeout -- 
comment -- Short description of the item
disabled -- Defines whether item is ignored or used
l2mtu -- 
mac-address -- 
mtu -- Maximum Transmit Unit
name -- Interface name
vci -- 
vpi --

Thu Oct 19, 2017 2:26 am

Will we see DSL modems soon?

Hopefully we will

Milotop · Thu Oct 19, 2017 3:23 pm

Will we see DSL modems soon?

[admin@sw2] /interface dsl> set 
Change properties of one or several items.

<numbers> -- List of item numbers
arp -- Address Resolution Protocol
arp-timeout -- 
comment -- Short description of the item
disabled -- Defines whether item is ignored or used
l2mtu -- 
mac-address -- 
mtu -- Maximum Transmit Unit
name -- Interface name
vci -- 
vpi --

Where did you find this?

patrick7 · Thu Oct 19, 2017 4:58 pm

/interface dsl on RB750GL / 6.41rc20

n4p · Fri Oct 20, 2017 12:54 pm

Can't wait for it!!! Still waiting for my preorder from Allnet, but they can't ship before Q1/2018.

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aholmes · Tue Oct 24, 2017 2:58 am

/interface dsl on RB750GL / 6.41rc20

Doesn't show up on my RB960PGS on either 6.41rc20 or the latest 6.41rc

Soon, though, I hope!

mtedo · Wed Oct 25, 2017 4:55 am

figured i'd throw my update into here, have tested the proscend 180-T here in australia (NBN FTTN 50mb/20mb service) and works fine (using hAP ac / RB962). would love to see the ability to pull line stats out of the SFP via routerOS in the future somehow, since we don't really know how fast it's actually syncing right now (though we did push 50Mbps through it no problems so obviously it's decent). protip for the future, the SFP does get very hot (much hotter than normal RJ45 SFP's) but that's most likely a side effect of basically fitting a modem into an SFP

VK2XXY · Thu Oct 26, 2017 4:09 am

have tested the proscend 180-T here in australia (NBN FTTN 50mb/20mb service) and works fine (using hAP ac / RB962).

https://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-r ... ?t=2671952

marlow · Wed Nov 01, 2017 11:28 am

They're in stock at Mikrotik-Shop now.

http://www.mikrotik-shop.de/Interfaces/ ... :1896.html

Ordered 2 to see, how they'll perform on VDSL in Ireland.

/M

pe1chl · Wed Nov 01, 2017 3:06 pm

Ordered 2 to see, how they'll perform on VDSL in Ireland.

I am in de ordering process but I am stuck at the payment options...
Do you see an option to do a EURO bank transfer? They don't offer creditcard payment.

marlow · Wed Nov 01, 2017 3:17 pm

Ordered 2 to see, how they'll perform on VDSL in Ireland.
I am in de ordering process but I am stuck at the payment options...
Do you see an option to do a EURO bank transfer? They don't offer creditcard payment.

"Prepayment by Wire Transfer" is EURO bank transfer i reckon. It's a bank holiday in their region in Germany today, so they won't respond before tomorrow anyhow either way.

/M

pe1chl · Wed Nov 01, 2017 4:00 pm

Ok, I got an automatic mail message when registering and replied to it, but thanks for the info, I will wait and see what options they offer.
(wire transfers tend to be quite expensive when they are not completely standard IBAN EURO transfers so I'd like to make sure)

marlow · Fri Nov 03, 2017 1:52 am

Ok, I got an automatic mail message when registering and replied to it, but thanks for the info, I will wait and see what options they offer.
(wire transfers tend to be quite expensive when they are not completely standard IBAN EURO transfers so I'd like to make sure)

I did get a response today and it was just a normal EURO transfer (Germany operates in EUR). So shouldn't be an issue.

/M

djmanas · Tue Nov 07, 2017 9:30 pm

Just a quick question about Proscend 180-T. Just had bought mine, tried to connect, but it is not working. The provider has said, that it should be working, but I should disable DHCP on the modem. Does anybody know how to configure the SFP module? The DHCP client is disabled in ROS.

Thanks,
Regards,
Petr Sourek

pe1chl · Tue Nov 07, 2017 11:16 pm

I did get a response today and it was just a normal EURO transfer (Germany operates in EUR). So shouldn't be an issue.

Thanks. It looks like mine is on the way... hopefully arrives later this week.

djmanas · Wed Nov 08, 2017 3:59 pm

Ok, the problem was in VLAN connection. Had to find out VLAN ID from ISP and add VLAN interface connected to SFP port and make PPPoE bound to VLAN interface. Now it works like a charm.

Thanks,
Regards,
Petr Sourek

Milotop · Wed Nov 08, 2017 5:01 pm

Ok, the problem was in VLAN connection. Had to find out VLAN ID from ISP and add VLAN interface connected to SFP port and make PPPoE bound to VLAN interface. Now it works like a charm.

Thanks,
Regards,
Petr Sourek

Can you tell us what kind of speeds you're getting on it?

marlow · Wed Nov 08, 2017 6:24 pm

Mine arrived today .. just need a VDSL line to test

.. And the plan then is to get some sort of bonding sorted. Shouldn't be too hard, as I'm the provider. So Mikrotik both sides of the PPPoE tunnels.

/M

Cha0s · Wed Nov 08, 2017 6:30 pm

I wonder if these SFP modules can be used in a switch and then a router instead of directly connected to a router.

Has anyone tried this scenario?

pe1chl · Wed Nov 08, 2017 6:44 pm

I wonder if these SFP modules can be used in a switch and then a router instead of directly connected to a router.

Of course, you can even use them to join two switches over a copper pair without a router, that is the purpose they were invented for.
(you need to use the proper models)

marlow · Wed Nov 08, 2017 7:09 pm

I wonder if these SFP modules can be used in a switch and then a router instead of directly connected to a router.

Has anyone tried this scenario?

The T-model probably not .. well, unless it's a Mikrotik switch running RouterOS .. then you can.

The two other models (which have to be ordered as a pair) absolutely. They'll allow you to transmit 100 Mbit/s over old phone wiring of up to 400m and cat5 up to 3km. Use a normal switch either side.

/M

Cha0s · Wed Nov 08, 2017 7:41 pm

Thanks, but I am not looking to connect 2 routers/switches using the telephone wiring.

I am looking to use this as a VDSL modem to replace my provider's modem and since my router does not have a free SFP port, my only alternative would be to connect the module to a switch (on which I do have free SFP ports) and then do PPPoE from the router.

But I am not sure how this would work exactly. Is simply putting the SFP port on the switch to a dedicated VLAN enough for the router to then do PPPoE over that VLAN?

How about that /interface dsl command mentioned previously? Would that still work if the SFP module is not directly connected to the router?
In other words, how would RouterOS will communicate with it over L2 ? Is there some standard that defines this?

djmanas · Wed Nov 08, 2017 10:31 pm

Can you tell us what kind of speeds you're getting on it?

Since I have slow connection 8Mbit/1Mbit, the module is able to achieve them.

n4p · Thu Nov 09, 2017 7:33 am

After long time waiting my sfp arrived Yesterday. And what should i say, it works as descripted with my VDSL Connection (40/10).

Hopefully in newer ROS can read Out the Connection state from the Module.

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pe1chl · Thu Nov 09, 2017 7:16 pm

My 180-T arrived today and it appears to work, although maybe at a slightly lower rate than the Draytek. I have to wait a little, the connection rate often increases after some time.
(seamless rate adaption)

I get about 42 Mbit/s effective download while my Draytek trains at 100 Mbit/s and I get up to 80 Mbit/s from the provider.
Has anyone tried the 6.41RC version? Does the /interface dsl command already show any info about the connection?

n4p · Fri Nov 10, 2017 9:29 am

I have currently RC6.41 on my RB2011, will take look as early as i am at home if there are any stats avaible. Through winbox i didn't find anything.

Edit: DSL Not available here until now.

pe1chl · Sat Nov 11, 2017 10:01 pm

My Draytek initially connects with these parameters:

   Running Mode            :      17A       State                : SHOWTIME
   DS Actual Rate          : 44870000 bps   US Actual Rate       : 17465000 bps
   DS Attainable Rate      : 45041488 bps   US Attainable Rate   : 17465000 bps

However, a few minutes after the connection has established the rate increases:

   Running Mode            :      17A       State                : SHOWTIME
   DS Actual Rate          :103349000 bps   US Actual Rate       : 17465000 bps
   DS Attainable Rate      :106387120 bps   US Attainable Rate   : 38060000 bps

(the US Actual rate does not increase in the displayed status but when measured it does, a bug in the Draytek firmware)

The SFP modem appears to get stuck at the initial rate and does not increase.
It looks like the "seamless rate adaption" does not work, or maybe it does not connect in mode 17A
(mode 7B instead) and so the max is much lower.
Unfortunately it is not (yet) possible to see what is going on due to the lack of status display in RouterOS.
Hopefully this will be added soon now that the modems have hit the market.

klaus007 · Sun Nov 12, 2017 8:23 pm

Hello!

I´m located in Austria and I also got a Procend 180T this Friday. It´s working fine in a hAP ac and achieves full provided speed (80/15Mbit). The pppoe-Client is operating over Vlan´s on my CCR1009.

Klaus

bjohns · Tue Nov 14, 2017 12:56 am

Tested the Proscend PS180-C-R VDSL2 SFP pair.

CRS317-1G-16S+ <-eth-> CSS106-1G-4P-1S <-vdsl2-> CRS317-1G-16S+

161mbit/sec UDP, 148mbit/sec TCP both directions between the CRS's over a 3m cat5 lead.

Later I'll find a long copper pair on campus to see what speed/distance can be obtained.

pe1chl · Tue Nov 14, 2017 12:59 am

Anyone aware if software updates are available somewhere and how they would be applied? Mine came with 3.4 software.

dksoft · Tue Nov 14, 2017 6:07 pm

Hello!
I´m located in Austria and I also got a Procend 180T this Friday.
Klaus

Grüß Gott, Klaus!

Where did you order the part to be shipped to europe?

Best regards,
dksoft

pe1chl · Tue Nov 14, 2017 6:16 pm

They are available shipped from Germany, see above.

dksoft · Tue Nov 14, 2017 6:43 pm

They are available shipped from Germany, see above.

Thanks, due to current reconstructions the new link is: http://www.mikrotik-shop.de/Interfaces/ ... :2192.html
Currently (2017-11-14) out of stock. 10-14 days delivery.

pe1chl · Tue Nov 14, 2017 7:57 pm

Ok, you are too late! I received one...

spooky · Wed Nov 15, 2017 9:45 pm

Hello I live in Greece and mikrotik-shop.de does not ship in Greece. Do you know any other e-shop ?

Thank you.

sup5 · Wed Nov 15, 2017 10:18 pm

Ok, you are too late! I received one...

Does it work with German T-Com VDSL?

pe1chl · Wed Nov 15, 2017 11:46 pm

Does it work with German T-Com VDSL?

No idea, I am not in Germany. Probably it will, but some more tweaking could be required, for me it does not work optimally.

dksoft · Thu Nov 16, 2017 9:15 am

Ok, you are too late! I received one...
Does it work with German T-Com VDSL?

I am waiting for delivery and post results in about 10-14 days from now.

Thu Nov 16, 2017 6:41 pm

I have been testing a 180-T but it seems to resync every 10-12 hours.

It does sync at a high speed on my line, and latency is low when it is working, but drops twice a day.

Has anyone else seen this sort of instability ?

Nick

pe1chl · Thu Nov 16, 2017 7:00 pm

I have been testing a 180-T but it seems to resync every 10-12 hours.
Has anyone else seen this sort of instability ?

It didn't do that here. The first night after I plugged it in it resynced at about 04:00 but my ISP does that automatically when it sees that a new modem has been plugged in on a line and the rates are suboptimal. That way the modem often re-trains at a higher rate and the problem is fixed.
However for this modem that did not work and it remained at too-low rate (about 42Mbps). On the next day, it did not resync anymore.
The latency was good, apparently Fast mode in both directions (when the modem thinks the line is marginal, it will switch to Interleaved and the latency is a couple of ms higher, but I got 6.5ms which is normal for my line).
Now my Draytek 130 is back on as it gives me twice the speed, I am hoping for some status display possibility in RouterOS so I can investigate what is really going on.

kalviz · Sat Nov 18, 2017 12:45 pm

Hello all,

I have a UTP3 wire running down my home in the drywall and only 1 pair is available. How can I connect couple of Mikrotiks over that pair? I see somebody suggested a Mikrotik router with SFP cage and pair of VDSL modems in SFP form-factor. But they are damn expensive - around $200 or something. I'd better unpack my sledgehammer and destroy the drywall for that money

)))) Is there some cheaper alternative, preferrably Mikrotik-ready?

pe1chl · Sat Nov 18, 2017 1:07 pm

With 1 pair available those VDSL modems probably are the best (and only) option. With 2 pairs you should be able to setup a 10 Mbps ethernet link (100 will work with some luck).
But when you install new cable anyway, you can use fiber

kalviz · Sat Nov 18, 2017 5:13 pm

Agh nevermind

2 pairs are perfectly OK for 100 Mbps, most of my home is already wired using 2 pairs and it is working like a charm.
Technically, there are other options besides those SFP VDSLs - I have seen some Solwise Ethernet-to-phoneline bridges on eBay at 60 EUR each but it's still way too much. For 40 EUR I can set up a pair of TP-Link homeplug adapters which run Ethernet over 220V - but my sense of perfectionism will suffer from realizing the fact that I had once spent a lot of efforts installing this phoneline and, in the end, failed to put it into proper use

BTW, are there any cheap mini-PCI VDSL/homePNA interfaces?

pe1chl · Sat Nov 18, 2017 10:06 pm

When you have coaxial cable for TV you should have a look at MoCA. You can run ethernet over coax together with normal cable TV frequencies (the MoCA is above that).

troffasky · Sat Nov 18, 2017 11:47 pm

BTW, are there any cheap mini-PCI VDSL

I haven't been able to find a mini-PCI(e) VDSL interface at any price, never mind cheap.

turnip · Sun Nov 19, 2017 8:05 am

BTW, are there any cheap mini-PCI VDSL
I haven't been able to find a mini-PCI(e) VDSL interface at any price, never mind cheap.

Draytek VigorNIC 132F (from memory)

turnip · Sun Nov 19, 2017 3:48 pm

BTW, are there any cheap mini-PCI VDSL
I haven't been able to find a mini-PCI(e) VDSL interface at any price, never mind cheap.
Draytek VigorNIC 132F (from memory)

Just realised my memory isn't quite right. The Draytek isn't mini-PCIe.

kalviz · Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:45 am

Holy Jeez! 132's are still 100 EUR each and they need a PC router to run

msatter · Mon Nov 20, 2017 1:29 pm

It is not cheap and it is not only just a VDSL connection.

In addition, in response to different network environments and different user needs, VigorNIC 132 series is not just a network card but also a router with DrayTek owned DrayOS software inside. The built-in DrayOS system allows users to set it to bridge mode or router mode based on different environment. It also provides an object firewall functions. With the high-speed PCI-e bus interface, VigorNIC 132 series can avoid congestion and packet delay. Besides, the PCI-e interface also offers power directly to save the power consideration and has the advantage of lightning or power surges protection. Moreover, the maximum power consumption of VigorNIC 132 series is only 6 watts.

n4p · Mon Nov 20, 2017 6:59 pm

I have been testing a 180-T but it seems to resync every 10-12 hours.

It does sync at a high speed on my line, and latency is low when it is working, but drops twice a day.

Has anyone else seen this sort of instability ?

Nick

Hey Nick,
Can't confirm that. For me here in austria the modul works absolutly perfect! Current PPPoe-Session Uptime is 3d.
Especually your Profil isn't correctly supported? Or your connection-mode?

Here we got G993.2 and Profil 17a.

Kind regards

kalviz · Wed Nov 22, 2017 5:09 pm

One more question - do I need to have a pair of 180-R + 180-C to run Ethernet over 2-wire? Or I can install 180-R in RB2011 which will then act as a sort of DSLAM and connect any cheap VDSL(ADSL?) modem to it?

pogo1975 · Wed Nov 22, 2017 11:26 pm

I have been testing a 180-T but it seems to resync every 10-12 hours.

It does sync at a high speed on my line, and latency is low when it is working, but drops twice a day.

Has anyone else seen this sort of instability ?

Nick
Hey Nick,
Can't confirm that. For me here in austria the modul works absolutly perfect! Current PPPoe-Session Uptime is 3d.
Especually your Profil isn't correctly supported? Or your connection-mode?

Here we got G993.2 and Profil 17a.

Kind regards

180-T works ok in Poland Orange over VDSL also

Wysłane z mojego YT-X703F przy użyciu Tapatalka

pmatous · Sun Nov 26, 2017 4:42 am

Hi guys,

Has anyone of you actually gave it a shot on ADSL2+ line? Is it possible to switch SFP to use VPI 8 / VCI 48 or is the table mentioned few pages back mean these presets are hard-coded within HW? Can it differ based upon HW revision? Mine is VX-160CE / 180-T version V3.2 (dumped it elsewhere using i2cdump tool).

dksoft · Sun Nov 26, 2017 9:02 pm

Does it work with German T-Com VDSL?

Yes. You need to disable auto-neg, set 1Gb fixed and create an interface with VLAN ID 7.

The "/interface dsl" menu is gone in 6.40.5 and 6.41rc56 on a CCR1009.
Can someone confirm this?

Transfer rates are rather pour. On a 100/40 VDSL I get:

ZyXEL VMG1312-B30A: 13ms, 102/41 Mb/s
Vigor 130: 19ms, 90/31 Mb/s
Proscend 180-T (Telco): 12ms, 71/24 Mb/s

Transfer rates did not get better after 24 hours.

I rather stick with my ZyXEL. It's what Deutsche Telekom recommends. Also it's more stable than Vigor/Proscend, e.g. I can see drops in the transfer rate on the others. Even that the ZyXEL has only 100Mb/s Ethernet, it gives the best results.

sup5 · Fri Dec 01, 2017 1:39 am

I am willing to try it nonetheless.
My vdsl-line has plenty of SNR (> 18 dB each direction) according to my current modem.

Can you recommend a (german) retailer that has this SFP in stock?

jonofe · Sun Dec 03, 2017 12:36 am

I can recommend https://www.mikrotik-shop.de/Interfaces ... :2192.html

I got mine 2 days ago and it works great on a O2 VDSL 50/10 MBit connection.
But it does not work with Dt. Telekom (T-COM) VDSL connections. That should change during 2018.

With my O2 VDSL I got 49.7 MBit down and 9.4 MBit uplink.

After inserting the module, it was directly recognized (sfp1).
I switched off autonegotiation on the sfp device.
I created VLAN7 (vlan7) and connected it to the sfp device(sfp1).
Then I created a PPPoE Client, connected it to Interface vlan7 and configured the dial-out setting with my O2 credentials.
Then finally I switched off my FB.

That's it ... Really great stuff!

dksoft · Sun Dec 03, 2017 1:41 pm

Can you recommend a (german) retailer that has this SFP in stock?

Hi, send me an DM if you want to buy my SFP.

Alestrix · Sun Dec 03, 2017 5:00 pm

But it does not work with Dt. Telekom (T-COM) VDSL connections. That should change during 2018.

Why so? If that's when you get migrated to BNG, it should still work now on the old BRAS.

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jollyjinx · Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:27 pm

fyi: I’ve ordered and received a VersaTec vx160ce and put it my UniFi switch. It powered up fine and it is recognized by the switch somewhat. It does not sync on my German Telekom VDSL line (100/40) however.
The device powers up and blinks green slow and then a bit faster, which means it does not sync. I have had no problems with my Fritzbox which always syncs with 109/41 and a line capacity of 139/41. The line is flawless from a vectoring standpoint.
I’ve tried to replace the fritzbox first with a Draytek Modem,but that failed as the connection speed and esp. the pings on the Draytek 130 were poor.
So now I tried with the sfp module and that did not sync - well it was not more than a long shot that failed so I’m sending that back as well except someone here wants to buy it.

blimpi · Fri Dec 08, 2017 9:30 am

Same here. Got the Modem for my hAP ac, but it does not sync on my VDSL-Line (100/40) from M-net Munich, which is using profile 30a without vectoring. The vendor (mikrotik-shop.de) told me in advance, though, that is does not work on lines from Deutsche Telekom.

pe1chl · Fri Dec 08, 2017 11:42 am

fyi: I’ve ordered and received a VersaTec vx160ce and put it my UniFi switch. It powered up fine and it is recognized by the switch somewhat. It does not sync on my German Telekom VDSL line (100/40) however.
The device powers up and blinks green slow and then a bit faster, which means it does not sync. I have had no problems with my Fritzbox which always syncs with 109/41 and a line capacity of 139/41. The line is flawless from a vectoring standpoint.

On my Dutch (KPN) line it takes quite long to sync compared to the normal modem and after that it has negotiated a lower rate. I get linesync like you (above-100/around-40) on my Draytek or on a Fritzbox but on the SFP it is only around 40 download (cannot see exactly what happens due to the lack of status display).

I’ve tried to replace the fritzbox first with a Draytek Modem,but that failed as the connection speed and esp. the pings on the Draytek 130 were poor.

Try to reflash the Draytek with different modem versions (modem1..modem7 I think it was), also versions that are not listed as recommended for your ISP.
I get best results with modem4 although the distributor recommends modem5. With modem4 the rate is higher and it uses FAST instead of INTERLEAVED so faster ping too.

So now I tried with the sfp module and that did not sync - well it was not more than a long shot that failed so I’m sending that back as well except someone here wants to buy it.

I still keep mine around hoping that MikroTik will add a command to display the status and maybe there will be new firmware for it... although I have no idea how that would have to be flashed.

lenart · Tue Dec 12, 2017 9:01 pm

I've just received the Proscend 180-t from Duxtel in Australia. I've installed the module in my RB 2011 and switched over my config to the SFP port. So far so good, I've been able to measure speeds of 70/30 up/down which seems to indicate that vectoring is active. I'm on the Dutch KPN VDSL network and I have xs4all as my ISP. Television works and RFC4836 seems to work fine as well. It hasn't had any problem syncing and the connection seems stable (although it's only been an hour so far so fingers crossed.)

I hope that Mikrotik will implement some command line utility to manage this module so we can read stats, look at the synced speed, diagnose problems and potentially flash new firmware.

I wonder if these SFP modules can be used in a switch and then a router instead of directly connected to a router.

Has anyone tried this scenario?

I've tried this scenario with the Proscend 180-t in a Netgear GS110T switch and I can confirm that it works. The module acts as a bridge between the VDSL and SFP interface of the switch. I was able to add a trunk setup to the SFP port on my switch and send the two VLAN's (TV and Internet) out untagged on two separate ports to my router. I got both Internet and TV working without any significant problems.
I do have to be honest and tell you I only tested this for a short while so I have no idea how reliable this setup is. In addition, I experienced a significantly higher latency although it was only one measurement so I could have been unlucky.
All in all, I would rather stick with a Mikrotik setup as I think the chances of Mikrotik offering some sort of monitoring tool for the Proscend 180-t is higher than say a Netgear or Cisco baking this functionality into their switches.

Cha0s · Thu Dec 14, 2017 1:04 pm

Thanks for testing this

zerwes · Mon Dec 18, 2017 1:26 pm

Hallo Mikrotik Fans,

sorry but i want to tell you the trougth. For the German Market and German ISP connections only ALLNET will be have the right Hardware who will working.

Background: WE ALLNET, worked together with Procend and Metanoia "Chipsetvendor" more than 1 year to develope a working solution on German VDSL connections, including the VCI/VPI + VDSL syncronizing etc. In the meantime we got different Samples from Taiwan and we walked up, step by step that this SFP-VDSL Solution will working stable and will be coming to a finalize RTM-Version.

The 180C/R foir Point-to-Point over 2 Wire = ALL4780 = https://shop.allnet.de/detail/index/sAr ... h/all4780
The 180T "GERMAN VERSION" will be called = ALL4781 = https://shop.allnet.de/detail/index/sAr ... h/all4781

The 1st massproduction shipment will be arrived in Q1_2018.

Alternatives for Bridge-Modem for German Connections
ADSL based on Lantiq = ALL0333CJ = https://shop.allnet.de/search?sSearch=all0333cj

ADSL & VDSL based on Broadcom including Vectoring = ALL-BM200VDSL2V https://shop.allnet.de/search?sSearch=all-bm200

VDSL2 based on Lantiq Vinax V3 including Vectoring "Best-Performance on VDSL2" = ALL-BM100VDSL2V = https://shop.allnet.de/search?sSearch=all-bm100

Thanks Gerhard Zerwes "Head of ALLNET Product-Brand"

sup5 · Tue Dec 19, 2017 1:17 am

Will you also offer a Standalone CO-Module without the CPE-Module?

Alestrix · Tue Dec 19, 2017 10:34 am

Hallo Mikrotik Fans,

sorry but i want to tell you the trougth. For the German Market and German ISP connections only ALLNET will be have the right Hardware who will working.

....

Alternatives for Bridge-Modem for German Connections
ADSL based on Lantiq = ALL0333CJ = https://shop.allnet.de/search?sSearch=all0333cj

ADSL & VDSL based on Broadcom including Vectoring = ALL-BM200VDSL2V https://shop.allnet.de/search?sSearch=all-bm200

VDSL2 based on Lantiq Vinax V3 including Vectoring "Best-Performance on VDSL2" = ALL-BM100VDSL2V = https://shop.allnet.de/search?sSearch=all-bm100

Thanks Gerhard Zerwes "Head of ALLNET Product-Brand"

Thanks for the info!
Regarding the ALL-BM100VDSL2V, do you have a firmware update that irons out the problems described at
https://geizhals.de/allnet-all-bm100vds ... _ratings=1 (German)

Sorry for OT.

Cheers
Alex

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