hAP ac³

cpresto · Tue Sep 29, 2020 10:12 pm

Nice router but something is still missing...
- FXS port (hopefully 2);
- colored WAN port (blu?) and PoE port (red), to avoid Customer's connection mistakes
... a good opportunity missed to made a rotuer to be used at residential Cusotmer's site.
Something like this ... https://www.tp-link.com/it/home-network ... r-vr1200v/
Rgds

neutronlaser · Tue Sep 29, 2020 10:27 pm

Lol mikrotik barely have Wifi 5 and you want them to start doing FXS

DarkNate · Tue Sep 29, 2020 11:32 pm

Lol mikrotik barely have Wifi 5 and you want them to start doing FXS

Exactly, like MikroTik markets itself towards WISPs and ISPs, not Wi-Fi.

I honestly don't understand why people buy MikroTik routers for the Wi-Fi. I would just use MikroTik only for routing/switching, that's pretty much it.

cpresto · Wed Sep 30, 2020 10:55 am

Mikrotik offers unmatched troubleshooting possibility at Customer's site, especially at residential ones.
Many time Customers made mistakes, but the didn't tell you at the phone, e.g. just plug&play a new AP, obviously with DHCP server on (...) and then call the WISP because "Internet connection dosen't work". With other WiFi/FXS router anvailable on the market (TPLink, etc...) the WISP is simply BLIND on LAN side, instead mikrotik offers many troubleshooting possibilities (torch, dhcp client settings on LAN, secondary IP, IP scan, etc ...) on LAN side. Moreover... too many power suppliers means mistakes: only one device (with PoE out for the radio) is perfect, but LAN port MUST HAVE different colors, in order to check with Customers @ the phone if everything is properly connected: e.g. "is the cable that goes to the radio plugged in the RED port?" .
Rgds

Wed Sep 30, 2020 10:59 am

The port is clearly labeled with the text "INTERNET", which works even for people with poor color perception.

cpresto · Wed Sep 30, 2020 11:28 am

Believe me Normis "clearly labeled INTERNET" is not enough for tipical residential Customers ;-D
Is some cases they are even not able to find out an electrical plug... ;-D
Rgds

paulct · Wed Sep 30, 2020 11:42 am

Only thing I wish both the hAP ac2 and ac3 has was a SFP port

CZFan · Wed Sep 30, 2020 2:57 pm

Believe me Normis "clearly labeled INTERNET" is not enough for tipical residential Customers ;-D
Is some cases they are even not able to find out an electrical plug... ;-D
Rgds

Deployed a FTTh solution in a golf estate, first question sked when customers calls in and say they have no internet "is there any red lights on ONU / ONT?", one customer replied yes, and send us a picture of the pre-paid electricity meter :-)

neutronlaser · Wed Sep 30, 2020 8:20 pm

DarkNate · Wed Sep 30, 2020 9:10 pm

Believe me Normis "clearly labeled INTERNET" is not enough for tipical residential Customers ;-D
Is some cases they are even not able to find out an electrical plug... ;-D
Rgds

Deployed a FTTh solution in a golf estate, first question sked when customers calls in and say they have no internet "is there any red lights on ONU / ONT?", one customer replied yes, and send us a picture of the pre-paid electricity meter :-)

Next level stupidity.

I've also seen so called "pros" calling an ONT/ONU as a "modem". I'm like "What the heck is a "modem" in Fibre optics?"

For those who will start argument on whether modulation occurs in optics or not, read this: https://networkengineering.stackexchang ... 4461#64461

inteq · Wed Sep 30, 2020 9:51 pm

Even professionals call them modem because they got used to speaking with non-tech customers that only knows this terminology.
Try talking to your average Joe and tell them about ONU/ONT.
You just tell them modem and they know what you are talking about. No point in correcting them or explaining.
You do not interact with final customers too often me thinks.

SiB · Thu Oct 01, 2020 1:44 am

Chateau / hAP ac³ - have the same PCB as base system. Dual Possibility for LTE socket M.2/mPCIe

PCB-LTE.png

what probably be base for future 5G with external antennas.

In this Chateau LTE12 poor bandwidth user say we can have problems with ISP speed... but he still not provide export...:

haj3s29a

UPDATE - it is poorly described. With queues and firewall filters, max 200Mbps. Everything default + fasttrack 320Mbps

Anyone tried bandwidth test for Chateau, please?

I have got CATV Internet up to 500Mbps but I cannot get over 25MBs (200Mbps) with queues and some filtering. Using fasttrack pushes it to 40MBs (320Mbps) with almost default setting. It looks like that is limit.

Only one core is always 80-100%...average per CPU max. 30%

and this PCB have only 2 antennas for wifi. I think hAP ac² will be a new king of soho after RB951G :)

r00t · Thu Oct 01, 2020 4:12 am

Interesting. There doesn't seems to be missing many SMDs around mini-PciE slot, might be fun experiment to solder it in and see if it actually works. It may as it just needs power and pci-e lanes that should be coming directly from CPU.

SiB · Thu Oct 01, 2020 10:38 am

Interesting. There doesn't seems to be missing many SMDs around mini-PciE slot, might be fun experiment to solder it in and see if it actually works. It may as it just needs power and pci-e lanes that should be coming directly from CPU.

They are for antenna connectors but modem itself have own u.FL or IPEX4=MHF4 connectors from what you use directly.
For now I don't know it's limited by software but I am sure someone will try this :D

anav · Fri Oct 02, 2020 1:00 am

Only thing I wish both the hAP ac2 and ac3 has was a SFP port

Why go half way, SFP+ that is backwards compatible.
I also want mine to make milkshakes.

Seriously, I must admit I have a VOIP Modem sitting right next to my CCR1009.
No one I know has land line anymore, and a router with a VOIP built-in makes a lot of sense.

SiB · Fri Oct 02, 2020 1:22 am

anav

Seriously, I must admit I have a VOIP Modem sitting right next to my CCR1009.

When RJ11 start exist in RB then ppl say, you have rj11, I buy it bcs I think it's support ADSL+ too :)

neutronlaser · Fri Oct 02, 2020 3:56 am

Add Token Ring support please.

cpresto · Fri Oct 02, 2020 12:53 pm

anav
Seriously, I must admit I have a VOIP Modem sitting right next to my CCR1009.
When RJ11 start exist in RB then ppl say, you have rj11, I buy it bcs I think it's support ADSL+ too :)

FXS is not for ADSL obviously, but to connect existing Customer's phone

inteq · Thu Oct 15, 2020 3:47 am

Tested today my first hAP ac3
Not impressed. Not even one bit.
Same exact performance as hAP ac2, in a body twice the size, more expensive and with two useless antennae.
Tested a hAP ac2, a wAP ac and the new hAP ac3 in the exact same location with an Intel AX200 client, direct line of sight at ~3-4 meters.
For some reason, the ac3 with its big antennae is + .5 dBm on 5Ghz compared to the other two, in a capsman setup. Same setup for all 3.
hAP ac2 and wAP ac a steady -49-50 dBm.
hAP ac3 a steady -54-55 dBm no matter the antennae orientation. It's like the two antennae are there only for show.
I am really looking for a reason to recommend the newer ac3 over ac2, but cannot find any.

pekr · Thu Oct 15, 2020 8:00 pm

Wait, I am about to suggest my friend to get hAP ac3, to get more signal over the ac2. So it was not the case? Should have 5db vs the 2.5db of ac2, no?

Thu Oct 15, 2020 9:13 pm

Do not mix up the antenna gain and the signal strength. When using a high gain antenna your router has to reduce tx power to stay withing the legal boundaries, so the max signal strength you get is the same. However the effective coverage is usually better, thanks to a better sensitivity on reception.

inteq · Thu Oct 15, 2020 10:04 pm

Thank you @andriys for point this out. Indeed, you are correct.
I have briefly tested with only one concrete wall between the ac3 and the client and noticed the same behavior.
Tomorrow I will test this more thoroughly and get back with details in an up to 4 thick concrete walls location.

inteq · Fri Oct 16, 2020 6:20 pm

I know professionals with cool expensive toys will laugh their asses off, but this is the best I can do: one smartphone with WiFiman from Ubiquiti.

wAP ac and Samsung Galaxy S9+
1. Direct line of sight at 3 meters distance

wap1.png

2. Behind a 19 cm thick concrete wall at 6 meters distance

wap2.png

3. Behind two 19 cm thick concrete walls at 15 meters distance

31.jpg

hAP ac3 and Samsung Galaxy S9+
1. Direct line of sight at 3 meters distance

hap1.png

2. Behind a 19 cm thick concrete wall at 6 meters distance

hap2.png

3. Behind two 19 cm thick concrete walls at 15 meters distance

32.jpg

hAP ac2 and Samsung Galaxy S9+
1. Direct line of sight at 3 meters distance

hapac2-1.png

2. Behind a 19 cm thick concrete wall at 6 meters distance

hapac2-2.png

3. Behind two 19 cm thick concrete walls at 15 meters distance

3.jpg

ros44 · Tue Nov 10, 2020 5:48 pm

These tests are absolutely wonderful. One question: did you have the same RouterOS installed on all 3 devices while testing?

inteq · Tue Nov 10, 2020 6:11 pm

Same exact RouterOS version.
Same exact settings for WiFi, all 3 devices provisioned through capsman 00:00:00:00:00:00 on both radios, with channel 36 (5180Mhz) on 5Ghz, only-AC
All 3 devices tested one at a time, so close to no radio interference.
Only the testing client registered on capsman.

Maybe Mikrotik will release a fix in the future, allowing ac3 with its external antennae to perform better, but 6.47.6(7) is not it.

kos · Wed Nov 11, 2020 9:11 am

Believe me Normis "clearly labeled INTERNET" is not enough for tipical residential Customers ;-D
Is some cases they are even not able to find out an electrical plug... ;-D
Rgds

Deployed a FTTh solution in a golf estate, first question sked when customers calls in and say they have no internet "is there any red lights on ONU / ONT?", one customer replied yes, and send us a picture of the pre-paid electricity meter :-)
Next level stupidity.

I've also seen so called "pros" calling an ONT/ONU as a "modem". I'm like "What the heck is a "modem" in Fibre optics?"

For those who will start argument on whether modulation occurs in optics or not, read this: https://networkengineering.stackexchang ... 4461#64461

https://www.neophotonics.com/whats-diff ... ber-links/

wiesulis · Wed Nov 11, 2020 10:58 am

Did you specify antenna gain for all the devices when conducted the tests?

I know professionals with cool expensive toys will laugh their asses off, but this is the best I can do: one smartphone with WiFiman from Ubiquiti.

wAP ac and Samsung Galaxy S9+
1. Direct line of sight at 3 meters distance
wap1.png

2. Behind a 19 cm thick concrete wall at 6 meters distance
wap2.png

3. Behind two 19 cm thick concrete walls at 15 meters distance
31.jpg

hAP ac3 and Samsung Galaxy S9+
1. Direct line of sight at 3 meters distance
hap1.png

2. Behind a 19 cm thick concrete wall at 6 meters distance
hap2.png

3. Behind two 19 cm thick concrete walls at 15 meters distance
32.jpg

hAP ac2 and Samsung Galaxy S9+
1. Direct line of sight at 3 meters distance
hapac2-1.png

2. Behind a 19 cm thick concrete wall at 6 meters distance
hapac2-2.png

3. Behind two 19 cm thick concrete walls at 15 meters distance
3.jpg

inteq · Wed Nov 11, 2020 4:09 pm

Antenna gain cannot be configured under capsman.
I updated all 3 devices to the latest stable RouterOS.
Reset into capsman mode:

reset.png

capsman set to auto provision using 00:00:00:00:00:00 MAC on both 2.4 and 5Ghz.
Settings on AP:
-disabled all IP/Services but Winbox.
-disabled all IP/Firewall/Service ports.
-set bridge STP protocol to none.
-set password.
-upgraded routerboard firmware to match RouterOS
No other setting done to ac2,ac3 and wAP, like gain or power.

DeBergz · Tue Jan 19, 2021 2:15 pm

Hi.
I am also having a wifi coverage problem on ac3.

I purchased a hAP ac3 instead on ac2 because the external antennas but the wifi coverage on 2.4Ghz is average and 5Ghz is bad. My ISP router ZTE H288A has much better coverage.
I tried also fixed channels with the same results.

Did you found any solution to that problem or I purchased a dummy wifi router with big antennas?

- RouterOS 6.48 (Stable)

alibloke · Wed Jan 20, 2021 10:38 am

Antenna gain cannot be configured under capsman.

Antenna gain needs to be set in the normal wireless settings before capsman is enabled on the cap. It's CLI only now after a config change, but still works AFAIK.

erlinden · Wed Jan 20, 2021 10:41 am

Did you found any solution to that problem or I purchased a dummy wifi router with big antennas?

Can you please share your config?
/interface wireless export hide-sensitive file=anythingyoulike

DeBergz · Sat Jan 23, 2021 6:06 pm

Did you found any solution to that problem or I purchased a dummy wifi router with big antennas?
Can you please share your config?
/interface wireless export hide-sensitive file=anythingyoulike

/interface wireless
set [ find default-name=wlan1 ] band=2ghz-b/g/n channel-width=20/40mhz-XX \
    country=no_country_set disabled=no distance=indoors frequency=auto \
    installation=indoor mode=ap-bridge ssid="NikosAfroHome (2G)" \
    wireless-protocol=802.11
set [ find default-name=wlan2 ] band=5ghz-a/n/ac channel-width=\
    20/40/80mhz-XXXX country=no_country_set disabled=no distance=indoors \
    frequency=auto installation=indoor mode=ap-bridge ssid=\
    "NikosAfroHome (5G)" wireless-protocol=802.11
/interface wireless security-profiles
set [ find default=yes ] authentication-types=wpa-psk,wpa2-psk mode=\
    dynamic-keys supplicant-identity=MikroTik
add authentication-types=wpa-psk,wpa2-psk mode=dynamic-keys name=profile \
    supplicant-identity=MikroTik
/interface wireless
add disabled=no mac-address=4A:8F:5A:A1:XX:XX master-interface=wlan2 name=\
    wlan3 security-profile=profile ssid="NikosAfroHome (Guests)"
add disabled=no mac-address=4A:8F:5A:A1:XX:XX master-interface=wlan1 name=\
    wlan4 security-profile=profile ssid="NikosAfroHome (Guests)"

Also tried to set country to my country (Greece) with the same results

Gut007 · Fri Jun 04, 2021 5:33 pm

Chateau / hAP ac³ - have the same PCB as base system. Dual Possibility for LTE socket M.2/mPCIe
PCB-LTE.png
what probably be base for future 5G with external antennas.
very Best Paintball Gun Under 150 June 2021
In this Chateau LTE12 poor bandwidth user say we can have problems with ISP speed... but he still not provide export...:

haj3s29a
UPDATE - it is poorly described. With queues and firewall filters, max 200Mbps. Everything default + fasttrack 320Mbps

Anyone tried bandwidth test for Chateau, please?

I have got CATV Internet up to 500Mbps but I cannot get over 25MBs (200Mbps) with queues and some filtering. Using fasttrack pushes it to 40MBs (320Mbps) with almost default setting. It looks like that is limit.

Only one core is always 80-100%...average per CPU max. 30%

and this PCB have only 2 antennas for wifi. I think hAP ac² will be a new king of soho after RB951G :)

Did you found any solution to that problem or I purchased a dummy wifi router with big antennas?

sviat88 · Thu Jun 10, 2021 10:35 pm

Bought Mikrotik hap ac3. Have a questions on wireless interfaces. In winbox, interface wlan1 or 2 in current Tx power there is no information. 2.4Ghz showing 0 Tx power, 5Ghz showing nothing. In Freq. usage function Hap Lite is always showing many channels with 75...90...50 usage, at the same time HapAc3 showinf 1...2% of usage. This isnt right i guess. Downloaded betta firmware - thought it has a fix - nothing changed. In 6.49beta46 changes claimed HapAc3 health status fixed, but after installation - nothing changed. Healh function is empty.... So many bugs....

inteq · Fri Jun 11, 2021 10:59 am

Bought Mikrotik hap ac3. Have a questions on wireless interfaces. In winbox, interface wlan1 or 2 in current Tx power there is no information. 2.4Ghz showing 0 Tx power, 5Ghz showing nothing. In Freq. usage function Hap Lite is always showing many channels with 75...90...50 usage, at the same time HapAc3 showinf 1...2% of usage. This isnt right i guess. Downloaded betta firmware - thought it has a fix - nothing changed. In 6.49beta46 changes claimed HapAc3 health status fixed, but after installation - nothing changed. Healh function is empty.... So many bugs....

viewtopic.php?t=95059#p616188

bpwl · Mon Oct 11, 2021 11:12 am

Did you found any solution to that problem or I purchased a dummy wifi router with big antennas?
Can you please share your config?
/interface wireless export hide-sensitive file=anythingyoulike

I you want the "reduction for antenna gain" included, you need "export verbose".

hatster1 · Mon Oct 11, 2021 10:26 pm

out of curiosity I bought a selection of the hAP routers to test as we are looking to deploy them to end user instead of the cheapie tp-link stuff which causes us a lot of headaches. I have a few questions:
1. Why is the PoE port NOT the Internet port on the ac3 router ? if this router is aimed at the home wisp market surely the Internet port should have the poe out ?
2. are there any plans to make a more economical model ? I also bought a hap lite tc. This looks like it would suit our requirements perfectly but with no external antennas the range is very limited, the next model up that has external antennas price-wise is more than 4 times more expensive.
3. I second the earlier request for a built-in ATA, we have quite a few VoIP customers and if we could have the wifi router / poe / VoIP all in one router it would be absolutely perfect !
4. I also second the earlier post recommending a different colour for the Internet port.

Fri Oct 15, 2021 12:01 pm

out of curiosity I bought a selection of the hAP routers to test as we are looking to deploy them to end user instead of the cheapie tp-link stuff which causes us a lot of headaches. I have a few questions:
1. Why is the PoE port NOT the Internet port on the ac3 router ? if this router is aimed at the home wisp market surely the Internet port should have the poe out ?

Pure logic ?
Internet In on hAP = port where you make connection to your external internet (or whatever is in between) therefor has to be PoE In because the previous device can then provide power to hAP on the same ethernet cable.
PoE Out is to provide power to other devices which are to be powered by hAP (other hAP, Cap, Cap AC, ...whatever). Because the incoming internet is already on port 1, PoE Out has to start from another one.

bpwl · Fri Oct 15, 2021 12:53 pm

You can easily swap the ports function (WAN or LAN). So to have the WAN port as PoE out is easy to set. (Swap the ethernet ports in the config)

Be aware of external/internal antenna performance expectations and desillusions. It all depends if it is indoors/outdoors.
Antenna with high gain outdoors will give greater range (because the antenna gain makes it a more sensitive receiver, the emitted signal it mostly NOT stronger, because limited by regulatory domain limitation of the EIRP level.)
The stronger antenna gain indoors gives mixed results when passing walls or ceilings. The reception is better again, but the transmission may suffer, because of the lower emitted energy in the non-primary directions. (Higher antenna gain is always achieved by making the emission less omnidirectional, it's donut-shaped for these stick-like antenna.) The path through walls and ceilings is unknown.

So you should test the range of the devices. Buying a higher gain AP is no guarantee for better coverage indoors.
You have to test it. In my case (20 houses) the freestanding hAPac2 outperforms a cAPac on the wall.

TX power used can only be seen in the wireless interface "status" page: e.g. ... "channel:5220/20-Ce/ac/P(20dBm)"

hatster1 · Fri Oct 15, 2021 1:54 pm

out of curiosity I bought a selection of the hAP routers to test as we are looking to deploy them to end user instead of the cheapie tp-link stuff which causes us a lot of headaches. I have a few questions:
1. Why is the PoE port NOT the Internet port on the ac3 router ? if this router is aimed at the home wisp market surely the Internet port should have the poe out ?
Pure logic ?
Internet In on hAP = port where you make connection to your external internet (or whatever is in between) therefor has to be PoE In because the previous device can then provide power to hAP on the same ethernet cable.
PoE Out is to provide power to other devices which are to be powered by hAP (other hAP, Cap, Cap AC, ...whatever). Because the incoming internet is already on port 1, PoE Out has to start from another one.

I was thinking of this from a Wisp point of view, ie, POE out for the antenna CPE, thanks anyway.

hatster1 · Fri Oct 15, 2021 1:56 pm

You can easily swap the ports function (WAN or LAN). So to have the WAN port as PoE out is easy to set. (Swap the ethernet ports in the config)

Yeh of course but then the physical ports would be labelled wrong, its nice not to have any opportunity for the customer to break things. We used to cut the tag off of the ethernet plug when we put it in so that the plug could not be removed but still people would swap the connectors around...

Fri Oct 15, 2021 2:11 pm

I was thinking of this from a Wisp point of view, ie, POE out for the antenna CPE, thanks anyway.

Right, in that case it does make sense indeed.
As stated, you can swap the ports easily but the printed info will effectively be out of sync then with the intended purpose.

bpwl · Fri Oct 15, 2021 3:46 pm

You can easily swap the ports function (WAN or LAN). So to have the WAN port as PoE out is easy to set. (Swap the ethernet ports in the config)
Yeh of course but then the physical ports would be labelled wrong, its nice not to have any opportunity for the customer to break things. We used to cut the tag off of the ethernet plug when we put it in so that the plug could not be removed but still people would swap the connectors around...

We use one of those .... https://www.google.com/search?q=rj45+lo ... =iu&ictx=1