Hello everyone,

I hope I’m in the right subforum here.

The article https://help.mikrotik.com/docs/display/ ... e+Protocol says about PTPv2:

Supported on:
CRS326-24G-2S+
CRS328-24P-4S+
CRS317-1G-16S+
CRS326-24S+2Q+
CRS312-4C+8XG
CRS318-16P-2S+
Not supported on:
CRS305-1G-4S+
CRS309-1G-8S+
CRS328-4C-20S-4S+
CRS354-48G-4S+2Q+

Is there any hope to get support for it on Cloud Core Routers (CCR1009 in my case) or even hAP ac2?

I’m not really sure wether the IPQ-401X are even capable of it.
I hope Tile is possible.

Thank you very much in advance.

PTP support requires assistance from hardware, which is normally only available in switch chips. CCR does not have that.

It seems like Tilera does have IEEE1588v2 support in hardware at least.
https://www.mellanox.com/related-docs/p ... E-Gx36.pdf

Why would you ever need PTP on a home-device (hAP ac2)?

Why would you ever need PTP on a home-device (hAP ac2)?

To have log entties with timestamps with nano-second precission?

It seems like Tilera does have IEEE1588v2 support in hardware at least.
https://www.mellanox.com/related-docs/p ... E-Gx36.pdf

Why would you ever need PTP on a home-device (hAP ac2)?

I use them wherever I only have one cable and multiple devices.
They are really great for having WiFi and wired devices in rooms that can’t easily be upgraded with multiple cable runs.
If I could I would run EtherCAT everywhere for timing but that’s a bit difficult regarding support from audio devices.

Why would you ever need PTP on a home-device (hAP ac2)?

To have log entties with timestamps with nano-second precission?

I hope I understand you.
I think that’s sarcasm?
The Mikrotik Devices don’t sync to the PTP Clock even with support for distribution of it.

To get high accuracy time on devices running cheap (or old) hardware, I use NTP in combination with 1PPS.
I.e. NTP is used for coarse sync and a 1PPS signal is separately distributed to the devices that require accurate time.
Of course that can be impractical when you have many devices or they are spread across a larger area.

I hope I understand you.
I think that’s sarcasm?

Yes, it is sarcasm, but only partially. IEEE1588v2 is essentially NTP with HW support. The net effect is higher time precission, both as absolute time and jitter. But one has to put thing into perspective: plain old NTP can give precission in order of magnitude of miliseconds while PTP can give precission in order of magnitude of microseconds. What exactly in typical office environment requires timing precission better than milisecond?

Just for information: in LTE network PTP is used for synchronizing different base stations transmiting data to same client device (inter eNodeB carrier aggregation). Before that function NTP was enough. And LTE base stations transmit at the same frequency (just like WiFi APs might) which means milisecont time precission is enough.

What exactly in typical office environment requires timing precission better than milisecond?

Not all environments are office environments! I think he is hinting that it may be e.g. a recording studio environment.

Just for information: in LTE network PTP is used for synchronizing different base stations transmiting data to same client device (inter eNodeB carrier aggregation). Before that function NTP was enough. And LTE base stations transmit at the same frequency (just like WiFi APs might) which means milisecont time precission is enough.

I am not in-depth familiar with LTE but I think in most networks like that there is a GPSDO (GPS disciplined oscillator) which is providing accurate frequency and time reference to the local equipment.
It may use NTP for time sync at ms accuracy, but it can use additional 1PPS for timesync to the 50ns ballpark. E.g. DVB-T and DAB transmitters work that way.
PTP makes that easier to use across multiple devices.

What exactly in typical office environment requires timing precission better than milisecond?

Not all environments are office environments! I think he is hinting that it may be e.g. a recording studio environment.

OP was asking about PTP availability on hAP ac2 ... personally I wouldn't use this unit in professional environments, but that's only my opinion.

I am not in-depth familiar with LTE but I think in most networks like that there is a GPSDO (GPS disciplined oscillator) which is providing accurate frequency and time reference to the local equipment.

I am in depth familiar with (at least one) LTE network. You're right, most vendors support connecting GPS receiver to eNodeB to provide accurate timing. However, times when every base station of a network had clear view of sky is long gone, hence need for protocol that delivers precise timing over backhaul network. This is where PtP comes into the game.
And keep in mind: it's not enough that base station's clock is disciplined to a few miliseconds, it has to be synchronized with adjacent basestations. Meaning that common source (however inacurate it might be) of timing has to be available at almost all times.

If you have the need for PTP (e.g audio, industrial, TDM-services, LTE), you most likely probably can afford a CRS3xx with support for it. It's not always about time, but syncronization.

I am in depth familiar with (at least one) LTE network. You're right, most vendors support connecting GPS receiver to eNodeB to provide accurate timing. However, times when every base station of a network had clear view of sky is long gone, hence need for protocol that delivers precise timing over backhaul network. This is where PtP comes into the game.
And keep in mind: it's not enough that base station's clock is disciplined to a few miliseconds, it has to be synchronized with adjacent basestations. Meaning that common source (however inacurate it might be) of timing has to be available at almost all times.

I find it hard to believe that any LTE base station (except picocells) would not have sufficient GPS reception to synchronize time.
Remember that with a GPSDO configured for fixed location time-reference operation you need only ONE satellite once position is locked.
Only indoor installations could have problems with that.
My GPSDO, which uses NAVSTAR (GPS), Glonass and Galileo at the same time, usually receives 16-17 satellites at a location without horizon-to-horizon reception.

I think it is more likely done to reduce the amout of outdoor installation work (GPS antenna and cabling), which costs man-hours.

A few milliseconds is within the capability of NTP. With a local NTP server (the same network) you should be well within a millisecond.
I use the setup for co-channel diversity FM, which requires accuracy of the order of 10us.

I find it hard to believe that any LTE base station (except picocells) would not have sufficient GPS reception to synchronize time.
...
Only indoor installations could have problems with that.

In some LTE networks, indoor installations make up for more than 50% of locations. Go figure.

I use the setup for co-channel diversity FM, which requires accuracy of the order of 10us.

Again: OP mentioned need for PtP support on CCR1009 and hAP ac2. Neither of these devices are actually used in setups you're mentioning. Keep in mind that grand master for IEEE1588v2 setups doesn't have to be on main router. Further more, most large scale IEEE1588v2 networks use dedicated devices for that role.

I'm not saying that support for IEEE1588v2 is not needed on Mikrotik devices. I'm just saying not every device needs to support it, only select devices, most likely to be used in such deployments, need it. Most notably pro-line switches (e.g. CRS3xx) as transparent client clocks and some radio devices as boundary clocks.

PTP protocol has nothing to do with NTP or System Time.
Please look at the PTP documentation https://help.mikrotik.com/docs/display/ ... e+Protocol

I don’t know what that discussion should help anyone.
It exists and the hardware seems to support it, so it’s not about „why?“
If I had the cash to spend I’d only use Mellanox and a 10MHz distribution.

But the Mikrotik devices are not only great at price/performance but generally nice to use while enough for my main applications.

Even Infineon XMC4800 have support for it. (Mainly because of EtherCAT, but the normal port seems to also support it.)
So it’s not necessarily about high price devices…
—

So the questions changes to:

Is PTPv2 Support for Tile planned?
Does IPQ401X have hardware support for PTPv2 in principle?

No, IPQ401x has no IEEE1588, PTP och SyncE support. It's for home/enterprise wireless.

So you want to run industrial automation bus at home, over the switch in your hAP?

No, IPQ401x has no IEEE1588, PTP och SyncE support. It's for home/enterprise wireless.

So you want to run industrial automation bus at home, over the switch in your hAP?

EtherCAT doesn’t run over anything.
Would make it totally useless.
Ethernet over EtherCAT would be more interesting but for the price I can lay fibre everywhere and run 40GbE over it.
And standard EtherCAT is 100Mbit.

I’d run it everywhere additionally if I could justify the hassle of new wires in the building.

But so the hAP ac2 is good enough for everything that’s necessary. Most rooms only have one Cat6 cable but more than one ethernet device.
And many devices only support Ethernet Base-T without an PCIe Slot.

I try to connect everything that has WiFi and Ethernet over wire. Wireless is reserved for moving devices like smartphones and tablets.

I don’t see that PTPv2 is an exotic feature as even a lot of Intel NICs simply support it.

@mada3k
Do you know for sure there is no support or did you guess based on the market position?
I can’t find a data sheet so far.

In principle it’s totally irrelevant as long as Mikrotik doesn’t plan on adding support but I have a bit of hope (at least for tile).

Kind regards

@2bn2t: I still fail to see use case for PtP support on low-end devices such as hAP ac2 or RB4011 (or even CCR routers for that matter). Can you kindly describe one for me (something that doesn't involve professional use where I'd expect professional devices in use)?

EtherCAT doesn’t run over anything.
Would make it totally useless.
Ethernet over EtherCAT would be more interesting but for the price I can lay fibre everywhere and run 40GbE over it.
And standard EtherCAT is 100Mbit.

You were talking about EtherCAT (over Ethernet)

EtherCAT (Ethernet for Control Automation Technology) is an Ethernet-based fieldbus system ... The EtherCAT protocol is optimized for process data and is transported directly within the standard IEEE 802.3 Ethernet frame using Ethertype 0x88a4.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EtherCAT

I’d run it everywhere additionally if I could justify the hassle of new wires in the building.

But so the hAP ac2 is good enough for everything that’s necessary. Most rooms only have one Cat6 cable but more than one ethernet device.
And many devices only support Ethernet Base-T without an PCIe Slot.

So.... you are trying to run EtherCAT to multiple rooms with an hAP ac ?

@2bn2t: I still fail to see use case for PtP support on low-end devices such as hAP ac2 or RB4011 (or even CCR routers for that matter). Can you kindly describe one for me (something that doesn't involve professional use where I'd expect professional devices in use)?

No, this isn’t relevant for the question.
Just because Mikrotik doesn’t charge frivolous prices and the hAP ac2 comes in a plastic shell doesn’t mean it can’t have certain features.
This is a forum for networking devices and not about my personal toying with time synchronization.

—

EtherCAT doesn’t run over anything.
Would make it totally useless.
Ethernet over EtherCAT would be more interesting but for the price I can lay fibre everywhere and run 40GbE over it.
And standard EtherCAT is 100Mbit.

You were talking about EtherCAT (over Ethernet)

EtherCAT (Ethernet for Control Automation Technology) is an Ethernet-based fieldbus system ... The EtherCAT protocol is optimized for process data and is transported directly within the standard IEEE 802.3 Ethernet frame using Ethertype 0x88a4.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EtherCAT

I’d run it everywhere additionally if I could justify the hassle of new wires in the building.

But so the hAP ac2 is good enough for everything that’s necessary. Most rooms only have one Cat6 cable but more than one ethernet device.
And many devices only support Ethernet Base-T without an PCIe Slot.

So.... you are trying to run EtherCAT to multiple rooms with an hAP ac ?

EtherCAT was just mentioned because it uses PTP and isn’t necessarily expensive.
Also it’s planned for my automation needs.

EtherCAT over Ethernet was never brought up because this would be totally wasted.
EtherCAT and Mikrotik isn’t related and isn’t intended.
—

Back to the Topic:

-> Tile like in the CCR has hardware support for PTP
=> @mikrotik: Is there hope that we get the functionality on those devices supported?

-> Are there Mikrotik products that include 802.11ac, an ethernet switch and hardware support for PTPv2?
=> if yes: @mikrotik: Is there hope that we get the functionality on those devices supported?

This is a forum for networking devices and not about my personal toying with time synchronization.

Right. So you came to forum asking for PtP support on ridiculously cheap devices but when asked for you don't want to explain use case. So far all use cases requiring PtP (more than one) I know require some serious equipment and personally I don't consider hAP ac2 to be in that category.

I'd say you're trolling.

Sorry for bumping this thread but I too am interested in this feature.
Not because it has much use to me but just because I like to experiment with things.
Don't get me wrong, NTP is fine for my needs but I just like to fiddle with things honestly.

One minor thing I noticed is that even two of the switches in the listed supported devices lack the options in winbox and the terminal?
Or do they require some package that isn't documented?
The devices in question are the CRS317-1G-16S+ and CRS326-24G-1S+.

EDIT: I was running an outdated version of ROS on both switches.

Hi,
SEL behind two Mk don´t get PTP. There are two MK´s and SuperMicro as linux router. First switch is CRS328-24P-4S+ and then CRS317-1G-16S+. On both is PTP enable (all settings on auto). On crs328 is uplink port ether24 (to router) as master and port ether23 to crs317 is marked as uncalibrated. On crs317 is uplink ether1 as master, swich is marked as grand master. On both switches I tried ROS long 6.48.6, stable 6.49.2 and 7.1.1

Is state uncalibrated right?

On router is set transport l2, delay e2e, prority 64
If I set on MK l2, e2e and priority auto, router is GM for both MK´s, but SEL´s don´t accepted PTP.

PTP_TIMESCALE from router is true
PTP_TIMESCALE from MK is false

Hi!

New here, but PTP is something we use for media transport.
The new CRS518-16XS-2XQ looks to be based on Marvell 98DX8525 https://www.marvell.com/content/dam/mar ... 018-07.pdf
It from the block diagram looks like there's hardware PTP support (1588V2)
Is it currently implemented ?