https://www.mt.lv/News108

Read our latest newsletter and learn more about:

hAP ax³ (2.5G Ethernet & USB!)
ATL LTE18 kit
FiberBox Plus
how LinusTechTips managed to save $100K with MikroTik
MikroTik MERCH, and more!

hAP ax3

interesting, just missing the test results tab on the product page of the hap ax3 so we can compare to ax2

1 2.5gig. nice

usb3, which one? also, white usb normally mean 2.0 :-P

Can we add this on a HTTPS link as well so I can download it. Work do not allow PDF download over HTTP.

https://t.co/mXixnst3je for that newsletter

hap ax3......Its almost Xmas Normis, perhaps I will find one in my stocking with Latvian stamps. ;-)

I like the hAP Ax3 with 3.0 USB (indeed color of plug, used to be blue for 3.0), and extra poE out.
Not mentioned but very important: License level 6. This allows User Manager V5 with more than 20 concurrent sessions in your RADIUS controlled network. No need anymore for the RB1100AHx4 Dude Edition for the license and storage.
Expect probably only wifiwave2 driver support for wifi, but then we can remove the antenna's and not use the "third party style" wifi, until the driver is updated to include MT style extensions (a long list of MT wifi features).
Supersedes the hAP ac3 on all features, also for Docker Containers.
On my "short list" already.

Just a minor note regarding the ATL LTE18 kit: wonder why the marketing folks just mentions band 28 when it supports all the common lower band 5 (850MHz), 8 (900 MHz), 20 (800MHz) and 28 (700MHz) ?? Besides that, it looks like a great solution.

https://mikrotik.com/product/atl18

... wonder why the marketing folks just mentions band 28 ...

Probably because B28 is the lower band with widest adoption globally? Originally it's APAC band, in Europe a sub-band is used, akso used in Americas. The rest of noted bands are limited to use in one of ITU regions ... Additionally B28 is latest addition to MT's LTE portfolio (not counting 3rd party modems which happen to be compatible/supported).

Is there going to be a version of the ATL without the modem card in it? And roughly what could we expect for gain in the 600MHz band 71? It's definitely a nice upgrade from the LHG!

Also, great merch! The groove boxers made my morning, haha.

Finally after years something compatible with B28 (700 Mhz)!!!

I see that you used EG18-EA chip, so, now release the same but with EG18-NA and will be perfect!!!

Regards.

Normis, where is my capaX3 ?????

Patience, little padawan.

It'll come, I'm sure.

@normis, what about ATL LTE18 kit antenna gain please ?
To compare with mANT LTE 5o on a LtAP LTE 6 kit.
Many thanks !

I guess we will see a cAP ax when CAPsMAN is ready for ax...

For the love of... why would anyone sabotage any product with just one single 2.5Gb port...

@normis, what about ATL LTE18 kit antenna gain please ?
To compare with mANT LTE 5o on a LtAP LTE 6 kit.
Many thanks !

Found in the PDF product page, sorry for the noise...

ax series will support MU-MIMO?? It is not written anywhere when tp-link cheap...

For the love of... why would anyone sabotage any product with just one single 2.5Gb port...

If successor of cap ac, it will most likely have two.

For the love of... why would anyone sabotage any product with just one single 2.5Gb port...

The largest ISP in canada has 1.5 probably soon 2.5 out on fibre.
Make sense ONLY if they have a modem that does as well.

Right now they try to force the stupid HUB which is router modem combo which I despise.

just one single 2.5Gb port...

For 1G WAN and 2.5G uplink to the LAN core, leaving 1.5G aggregate for the other three ports before you get any congestion.

Me, I wanted an SFP+ port for the same reason. Overkill, but then you could have fiber back to the core, 2.5G to the WAN, and no congestion for the 1G ports back to the core. Apparently we’ll have to wait for the ax version of the 5009 to get that.

Me, I wanted an SFP+ port for the same reason. Overkill, but then you could have fiber back to the core, 2.5G to the WAN, and no congestion for the 1G ports back to the core. Apparently we’ll have to wait for the ax version of the 5009 to get that.

Yes, I think one 5009 with 2x 10GiB would be really good. No, it doesn't have to be able to route 2x 10Gb + the others ports. But imagine if we could use it to effectively route one 5Gbps connection...

Thinking about it, with RoS v7 it does VLANs on the switch chip, doesn't it? Makes me wonder if a router on a stick setup would work well enough. 2 x 10Gb would be the way to go, don't get me wrong, but...

if you need 2 x 10g interface you can go with ccr2004-16g-2s+

I don't NEED 2x 10Gb - I just want. :D

Seriously now:
I think there is a hole on the lineup (I'm talking about SOHO usage: this means routing few connections with high bandwidth - typical usage when downloading ISOs, updates or games)
We could use the hAP (AC or XC)3 to route 1Gbbps.
We could use the 5009 to route 2,5Gbps
But we have nothing to route something around 5Gbps. Sure, we could use the ccr2004-16g-2s+ (there is even one version passive cooled - the CCR2004-16G-2S+PC). But this thing costs more than twice the 5009.

The way I see it, the 5009 will be good with internet connections up to 2,5Gbps. After this, one would have to get the ccr2004. But it's too huge a step: something between both of them would be great. Yes, we could do a router on a stick with the 5009 - but this is more a kludge than a solution.

I think an RB5009 is a pretty good device for routing 10G. At least I plan to use it for that purpose. According to the tests from MT it´s CPU is even stronger than a CCR2004.
CCR2004 only has a higher throughput, because the rb5009 is limited by it´s single 10G port.
Look for the 25 rules 1500k packets: it still delivers almost 10G. (For high throughput to NAS you don´t need to consider small packet sizes.)
If you wan´t to use it to segment the home NAS as well, you can just use fast track and put the rule for allowing NAS access to the beginning of the rule set.
I don´t find much difference between the two in HW offloading either.

The only advantage I see with an ccr2004 is that I would not need an extra switch.

BR

W

ATL 5G kit ?
Becouse NR7101 from zyxel is really bad.
(Actually it is good, but you need extra router behind it).

Is this a mistake in the description or do both of these two routers support automatic CPU frequency change?

Looks like rather poor gain for lower bands on the ATL.

ATL looks good, you should replace the LHG concept or use nRAY concept thats the best one...

Probably because B28 is the lower band with widest adoption globally? Originally it's APAC band, in Europe a sub-band is used, akso used in Americas. The rest of noted bands are limited to use in one of ITU regions...

My guess it's antenna related, se below.

Looks like rather poor gain for lower bands on the ATL.

Sadly yes. According to newsletter 108 regarding the ATL LTE18 kit, it is equipped with two high-gain antennas but I'd say 3 dbi isn't much to speak of.


The following quote is pretty contradictory in particular if you pay attention to that the ATL low band antenna gains at those frequencies are below or equal to zero:

"There are 4 high-gain middle band (1.7 – 2.7 GHz) and 2 high-gain low band antennas (700 MHz – 1 GHz, LTE Band 28). Why is that important? Two reasons. First of all, the 700 and 800 MHz LTE band is one of the most popular frequency options in the world."

ATL series low band antenna gain with a 3 dbi peak at approx 900-950 mhz:

LHG series low band antenna gain:

1) white USB port due to 3D render mistake, actual product has a blue port
2) well yes, more AX products are coming, but we need to make AX compatible CAPsMAN first
3) No mistake, the hAP ax2 is clocked lower than hAP ax3, due to better cooling in the larger case of hAP ax3

The POE In/Out limited to 28v is a shame. I have deployed many 48V nearly-gigabit uplink radios, and this would certainly reduce the number of power supplies I have to install at the premises.

I guess I could get away with 28V to some of those radios if the router came with a 28V power supply, however.

1) white USB port due to 3D render mistake, actual product has a blue port
2) well yes, more AX products are coming, but we need to make AX compatible CAPsMAN first
3) No mistake, the hAP ax2 is clocked lower than hAP ax3, due to better cooling in the larger case of hAP ax3

Hi Normis, thanks for the info, any timeline on capsman ax3 testing and release (roughly).
If you need a real world dummy to beta test ax3 and capsman,......... but if you want expertise ask bpwl!

... 3) No mistake, the hAP ax2 is clocked lower than hAP ax3, due to better cooling in the larger case of hAP ax3

Thanks for the info

I'm waiting for something like nRAY but in the AY standard and with greater antenna gain.
Of course with integrated 5Ghz backup

Hi Normis, why do you care about capsman working before releasing cAP AX2? Big companies do not use MT for wireless anyway. Most of the poeple interesting in wireless from MT are using few AP and those can be set manually....you should focus on poeple who buy your stuff, Those people need working mesh system, just set up AP and forget it but with working roaming. Im just wondering how your few years old wireless standards 802.11 r,k,w are working released recently? Why is 802.11 r working only on local AP? Why did you forget implement 802.11v ?????

You'd be surprised how many companies/organizations use MT wireless.
The only way to know is the total number of sold units wired vs wireless. And only one party who has the totals.
The fact they will focus on capsman, tells something.
If AX2 (and other AX-devices) should become a big success upon launch/availability of HW, I think it is wise to make sure capsman can support it.
And wifiwave2.

And I'm talking about REAL availability. Not like some distributors luring customers in claiming stuff has arrived only to see there is nothing in stock.

Anyhow, that's my view.

2) well yes, more AX products are coming, but we need to make AX compatible CAPsMAN first

:-D

The following quote is pretty contradictory in particular if you pay attention to that the ATL low band antenna gains at those frequencies are below or equal to zero:

That rules out the ATL for me, which looked very promising at first having seen the video earlier. I currently have the Chateau 5G with external LPDA antennas (rewired to modem ports 0+1) and it performs roughly 10dB better on the 800MHz band 20 than the LHG LTE I have when tested on same outdoor pole as the antennas. The LHG on the other hand performs about 3dB better on bands 1 (2100MHz) and 3 (1800MHz).

Ideally, I would like to see MikroTik produce the ATL (or LHG) with external antenna ports for the low bands below 1GHz. This way the ATL can use its on-board high gain antennas for 4x4 MIMO on the upper bands and use the external high gain Yagi or LPDA antennas with short leads for the low bands.

CAPsMAN for AX products is in internal testing. Beta should be available fairly soon.

@Rox169 There are A LOT of MikroTik CAPsMAN networks globally, I can't imagine why you would imagine " Big companies do not use MT for wireless anyway", it's simply not true.

@Rox169 There are A LOT of MikroTik CAPsMAN networks globally, I can't imagine why you would imagine " Big companies do not use MT for wireless anyway", it's simply not true.

Is 100% not true.
I am running capsman for really big company (for long time) and it is proved its quality and stability manytimes.

@Normis Im 40 years old and I never seen to use MT as AP in large company. Usually they use Ruckus and Aruba and Im not surprised. Lack of mesh after few years released as standard. Releasing "stable" version which are making some HW useless for example now in ROS 7.5 is breaking clinets on 60 GHz and no fix from MT. You have only one cealing AP and it is cAP ac. Please do not count cAP ac XL it is the same only in huge case. In this HW cAP XL you have promised huge wifi improvements but after some test the wifi is almost the same as cAP ac. Why do you not save some space in new products? hAP AC3 and cAP XL example how to kill our planet with plastic..there is so so wasted space without any reason both devices could be at least 5cm smaller...you save money on case, we save space in our living room and our planet will bee less plastic...

The world is big. You wouldn't believe what happens in other places.

@ Rox169 That you didn't see them doesn't mean it isn't there. I work for a very big company and yes we do use capsman.

why they need capsman? Are they changing ssid every week? For updates which can make those AP useless? For roaming :)? I would love to see how roaming is working there..

Hotels often set up temporary SSID for a conference. Roaming works perfectly with CAPsMAN. If you have troubles, maybe make a separate topic and people can help?

@Normis Im 40 years old and I never seen to use MT as AP in large company

No offense man but Tesla and SpaceX are not a "large company" ?

@Rox169 please define what you mean for "large company".
I use CAPsMAN everywhere in Hotels...
I still use MikroTik products even if I use CPE from other vendors,
because there is nothing like RouterOS (v6), all the others OS, used internally from the other products, disappear miserably...

The world is big. You wouldn't believe what happens in other places.

That's the best burn I have seen in ages !

best burn

Could you please explain to me what this means? (It's not sarcasm or a joke)
I am not English and I cannot understand it.

Most likely this definition:

burn
(1) slang: to disrespect someone (to diss); to make fun of someone; used by a third party after a first party makes fun of a second party. Brought back to life by the ever-popular That 70's Show.

Ok, thanks @holvoetn

Plox a pro version of the hAP ax³ with an sfp port.

CAPsMAN for AX products is in internal testing. Beta should be available fairly soon.

Please let there be improved Chanel profiles/selection!

I find the current channel profiles to be complicated and cumbersome. Being able to select your country and have RouterOS set the available channels and DFS settings in CAPsMAN automatically would be a HUGE improvement.

Most likely this definition:

burn
(1) slang: to call someone out for their idiocy/stupidity and failings especially when they think they are arrogantly the kings breakfast etc. To bring people down to earth to reality.

Fixed your definition, as it gave the wrong impression!.

Burn: Also its the very definition of many of rextendeds posts, and is why I love the lad so much! He can be part of my ascerbic llama family any day!!

@Normis, good to hear on the progress of capsman. I will have to learn capsman soon, which has been your dirty plan all this time.
I do have to ask, does the AX3 offering include mu-mimo type and ofdma processing?

quote:"MU-MIMO technology is now recognized as a major part of the Wi-Fi 6 (802.11ax) protocol"
quote:"With 802.11ax (Wi-Fi 6), basic MU-MIMO was updated to include uplink MU-MIMO, which means that an access point transmitting concurrently to multiple receivers can now also simultaneously receive from multiple transmitters (that also include uplink MU-MIMO)"
quote:" "The jump from 802.11ac to 802.11ax cuts the wait time even more by borrowing technology from the cell phone base station world – Orthogonal Frequency Division Multiple Access (OFDMA). This splits each MU-MIMO stream into four additional streams, boosting the effective bandwidth per user by four times. So with a 4-lunch-lady scenario, we have 4 lunch ladies serving four lines, and each lunch lady is serving four hungry students at the same time".

So to be clear and upfront,, what level of mu-mimo has been implemented (none to full uplink/downlink) and what about OFDMA? Has that been implemented?

( note: your answer will highly affect the choice of the hapax3 sitting in the cart ready for payment, either hit send or cancel! )

@Normis could you please answer to @anav? I think I have just woke up and I see where is hidden problem...I thought that this is wifi 6 standard and that this features MU-MIMO, OFDMA can not be taken out. You can not call it WIFI 6 then....

MU-MIMO is already in wifiwave2 for the hAP ac3. At least that is what I think to be seeing in the beacon sent out by wifiwave2.
viewtopic.php?t=188338
There are other interesting things, like BSS coloring.
Eager to be able to read that wifi6 beacon from the hAP ax3.
And very interested in the old-MT features that are missing now: 4-address mode, WDS, access list driven dynamic VLAN, DUDE monitor support.
CAPsMAN compatibility might bring DUDE compatibility. (I'm interested in central monitoring, not in the current CAPsMAN like setup)

MU-MIMO is already in wifiwave2 for the hAP ac3. At least that is what I think to be seeing in the beacon sent out by wifiwave2.
viewtopic.php?t=188338

Hi bpwl, I want the facts to be plainly visible on product specs and literature it should note take the resident wifi genius to spend years of research to ascertain the truth! ;-)

BSS colouring, no idea that that is...... as for monitoring are you saying there is no real utility in capsman or just that your not interested particularly in that functionality?

Hi @anav. BSS coloring is also very new to me (if have no operational ax installation). I understand it as (just from reading !!!, No experience) "BSS color information can be used in modes of Spatial Reuse Operation to apply adaptive clear channel assessment (CCA) thresholds for detected OBSS frame transmissions. The goal of spatial reuse is to ignore transmissions from an OBSS and therefore be able to transmit at the same time." https://www.extremenetworks.com/extreme ... -802-11ax/

I have used Fortinet (Fortigate/FortiAP) in 100+ AP professional installations, where the Fortigate-cluster was the HA controller, and the combination gave a seamless roaming environment. Great added value.

CAPsMAN falls (too) short for me. Reduced performance, no A-A HA for the CAPsMAN controller, every AP is tuned (that would need almost 2 profiles per AP) not all features or parameters available in CAPsMAN.

Very happy with current tuned 40+ hAP wAP campus installation, with 20 MT-4-address PtMP distribution links, . DUDE is essential in monitoring all and (wifi) behaviour tracking. (for tuning feedback).
But that is just my personal preferrence!! It's just me! Your mileage may vary. No known issues for 2 years, 180Mbps in every corner of that 1km², 200 connected BYOD clients (20 active streaming on average)

hAP ax³ (and the rest of our IPQ6010-based devices) supports OFDMA and full bandwidth UL MU-MIMO

coool so I do not have to cancel my order :)

Thanks FToms, you win a prize!! see jpg :-)
Geez, I get up in the morning and what do I find on youtube, another Normunds (Normis) video. I'm addicted. ;-)
............................

Anyone know if the ATL's modem is replaceable? And/or if an "ATL R" model will be released?

Love the MIMO-ness of the ATL...but the LTE18 band plan looks pretty poor for the US/NA (e.g. no B12 and its ilk).

The modem is one R11mL-EG18-EA

Anyone know if the ATL's modem is replaceable? And/or if an "ATL R" model will be released?

Love the MIMO-ness of the ATL...but the LTE18 band plan looks pretty poor for the US/NA (e.g. no B12 and its ilk).

I too want one of these without the R11mL-EG18-EA modem. I need to put in a Verizon compatible modem in it.

Now there is a dilemma with new ASL. I live 1.5km from LTE-A tower. Now I own indoor Mikrotik LTE18 router with EG18-EA modem (support 2x2 MIMO) + 10m cable + single Iskra P-42 antenna(9.5dbi @ 1800/2600Mhz). RSSI around -60db, SINR around 18-22db. Now the options to FULLY utilise the network and squeeze the max, interested only in mid bands:
1. Invest in second P-42 antenna and put both in 45/135degree configuration. It brings 2x2 MIMO, gain 9.5dbi minus 10m cable loss.
2. Invest in Mikrotik LHG dish, still 2x2 MIMO but higher gain (15dbi @ 1800Mhz, 17dbi @ 2600Mhz), no cable loss.
3. Invest in Mikrotik ASL, more compact, 4x4 MIMO, but gain is lower than LHG (2x antennas 11-12dbi @1800/2600Mhz, 2x antennas 8-9dbi @ 1800/2600Mhz), no cable loss.

Rural area, no buildings around, just forest between me and cell tower.
Option 1 would be the solid choice and the cheapest.
ASL, 4x4, lower gain vs LHG, 2x2, higher gain. First world problems...

hAP ax3 ❤️

Yeah I saw that and thought "nice"... not that I can really justify it, Wi-Fi 5 is more than good enough for me ;-)

>"MikroTik merch - FINALLY ready!

Might be tempted by some of that though!

The Groove boxers???

Sorry...

Normis, any eta on hAP AX routers that support PoE input? (and I mean real 802.3af or later 48v PoE, that works with switches that are aren't either MT or UBNT).

I will buy a lot of them!

... and POE output / throughput on another port. That is what I miss with current hAP ax². I hope for an upgraded mAP ax for this...

Oohh ... map ax and map ax lite ... those would be wicket cool Swiss Knife devices ...

Do the new hap ax2 and ax3 support the hardware VLAN tagging and filtering?

IPQ-PPE switch chip features appeared on https://help.mikrotik.com/docs/display/ ... p+Features I wonder if it supports the hardware VLAN tagging and filtering because the VLAN table feature is a no.

Current help page reflects current features supported. If you look at old wiki page, which shows state of art in ROS v6, you can see that VLANs are not supported on MT7621 and RTL8367 ... which both got HW offload support for VLANs in early v7 versions. Meaning that IPQ-PPE can still get HW VLAN support in future ROS versions.

Current help page reflects current features supported. If you look at old wiki page, which shows state of art in ROS v6, you can see that VLANs are not supported on MT7621 and RTL8367 ... which both got HW offload support for VLANs in early v7 versions. Meaning that IPQ-PPE can still get HW VLAN support in future ROS versions.

Then there is hope for the future.
Don't you have hap ax* to test the bridge hw offload and VLAN?

ANy news about OLT?

Do you know if is planned an hardware Wifi6 (similar hap ax2 or hap ax3) but wallmount like cAP AC?

Yes, will exist, probably announced soon.

Now there is a dilemma with new ASL. I live 1.5km from LTE-A tower. Now I own indoor Mikrotik LTE18 router with EG18-EA modem (support 2x2 MIMO) + 10m cable + single Iskra P-42 antenna(9.5dbi @ 1800/2600Mhz). RSSI around -60db, SINR around 18-22db. Now the options to FULLY utilise the network and squeeze the max, interested only in mid bands:
1. Invest in second P-42 antenna and put both in 45/135degree configuration. It brings 2x2 MIMO, gain 9.5dbi minus 10m cable loss.
2. Invest in Mikrotik LHG dish, still 2x2 MIMO but higher gain (15dbi @ 1800Mhz, 17dbi @ 2600Mhz), no cable loss.
3. Invest in Mikrotik ASL, more compact, 4x4 MIMO, but gain is lower than LHG (2x antennas 11-12dbi @1800/2600Mhz, 2x antennas 8-9dbi @ 1800/2600Mhz), no cable loss.

Rural area, no buildings around, just forest between me and cell tower.
Option 1 would be the solid choice and the cheapest.
ASL, 4x4, lower gain vs LHG, 2x2, higher gain. First world problems...

LMT doesnt have 4x4 in b1, b3 b7,
Only Bite in their new Erricons sites have 4x4 mimo for b1,b3,b7,b40,

Tele2 on their 5G towers (could also be regular lte towers but build after 2022 Feb.)have 4x4 also for b1,b3,b7,

and from my experience 4x4 works good only with perfect signal.

hAP ax³ (2.5G Ethernet & USB!)

Does actual 2.5Gbps work with PoE? I ask, because someone told me that using PoE (in the same cable as data) causes actual speed to be limited to 1.25Gbps. Are there any bandwidth tests for this NIC with PoE on the same cable?

Wouldn't you be limited by what the PoE injector can do? I haven't seen an injector faster than 1 Gbps but that's probably because I haven't needed a faster one and because I haven't stumbled near them. (I've had lots of trouble due to mixing 100 Mbps and 1 Gbps PoE injectors, an extra check is always welcome)

100Mbps injectors are different ... because 100Mbps only uses 2 pairs and the other 2 pairs are used for power without providing circuitry to pass ethernet signals.
From this perspective 1Gbps is same as 2.5Gbps (or higher) and in principle PoE and 2.5Gbps (or 5Gbps) should coexist just fine. However, higher rates use higher frequencies and higher symbol rates, all requiring better SINR. And PoE circuitry inside injectors can interfere if it's not built up to requirements. But generally PoE circuitry for 1Gbps+ is the same, so a high quality PoE injector, certified for 1Gbps, may work with 2.5Gbps just fine (similarly to cat5e cables which were originally certified for 1Gbps but work fine for even 10Gbps on very short links).

... and POE output / throughput on another port. That is what I miss with current hAP ax². I hope for an upgraded mAP ax for this...

There is hAP ax lite (L41G-2axD) now with IPQ-5010 (dual core ARM64). That could be a good match for mAP ax as well...