Wifi Wave2 on RB4011iGS+5HacQ2HnD

paxon · Mon May 16, 2022 12:49 pm

According to the documentation https://help.mikrotik.com/docs/display/ROS/WifiWave2
As of the release of RouterOS 7.1 the 2.4GHz wireless interface on the RB4011iGS+5HacQ2HnD is not compatible with the wifiwave2 package.

Anybody knows if 2.4GHz interface will be supported in any future releases? Or such expensive router will become a "handicapped equipment" for good.
Would like to switch to the wifi wave2, but without 2.4GHz interface, cannot do so.
I'm wondering if there's any hope for it in the future, or if I should sell it and buy new (non-mikrotik) gear.

rextended · Mon May 16, 2022 1:15 pm

Wave 2 is not supported on any 2,4GHz device.
Wave 2 Is only for "ac" and I do not know, actually, any AP from any producer with "ac" on 2.4GHz.

The product is released on 2018, 4 years ago, and what is implemented later on v7 can not be fully compatible with previous v6 product.

Mon May 16, 2022 1:26 pm

Small correction, WifiWave2 driver does support 2.4GHz interfaces, but it depends on the wireless chip underneath. For example, Audience has 2.4GHz wireless, using IPQ-4019, and it does support the WifiWave2 package. It's just that the RB4011 wireless chip for 2.4GHz doesn't.

In future, there will be more products, that support WifiWave2 on all interfaces.

Mon May 16, 2022 1:53 pm

Wave 2 is not supported on any 2,4GHz device.
Wave 2 Is only for "ac" and I do not know, actually, any AP from any producer with "ac" on 2.4GHz.

The product is released on 2018, 4 years ago, and what is implemented later on v7 can not be fully compatible with previous v6 product.

As indicated by Guntis, it does work if base chip does.
2.4Ghz works just fine on hAP AC3 (even better then without wave2). I don't see a dramatic difference on AC, at least not in the same amount as the fuzz that was made regarding wifiwave2 on itself.

rextended · Mon May 16, 2022 2:08 pm

I guess there was a little misunderstanding...

For me the wifiwave2 package is one thing, Wave 2 for "ac" is another.
I don't think a 2.4GHz card can work in "ac", Wave 2 or not...

Mon May 16, 2022 2:15 pm

I don't think a 2.4GHz card can work in "ac", Wave 2 or not...

And where did you see that combination being mentioned ? I don't see it.
You are the one who said "wave2 is only for ac" which on itself is not correct.

Wave2 DOES support 2.4GHz, if the wireless chip is supported.
And that was the question.
As for RB4011, out of luck there. Not supported for 2.4Ghz using wifiwave2 but it IS supported for the 5GHz radios.

rextended · Mon May 16, 2022 2:28 pm

Again?

The package called wifiwave2 is one thing, Wave 2 for "ac" is another thing.
Do you understand?

anav · Mon May 16, 2022 3:03 pm

I dont, what is wave 2 for AC ????

Mon May 16, 2022 3:04 pm

I dont, what is wave 2 for AC ????

Exactly my point as well ...

rextended · Mon May 16, 2022 3:07 pm

Uh......
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEEE_802. ... vs._Wave_2
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-user_MIMO

Mon May 16, 2022 3:13 pm

From Mikrotik Help page:
https://help.mikrotik.com/docs/display/ROS/WifiWave2

WifiWave2
The wifiwave2 package offers a new wireless driver, supporting 802.11ac Wave 2 features and an alternative configuration menu.

Features
WPA3 authentication and OWE (opportunistic wireless encryption)
802.11w standard management frame protection
MU-MIMO and beamforming
400Mb/s maximum data rate in the 2.4GHz band for IPQ4019 interfaces

Google (everyone's friend)

Wave 2 Wi-Fi simply refers to the second wave of wireless networking gear. It's based on the 802.11ac standard. Wave 2 introduced MU (multi-user) MIMO, for starters

It's the same. Just need to put a space between the concatenated words "wifiwave2"

rextended · Mon May 16, 2022 3:18 pm

But what is all this insistence for?

In any case, the Wave 2 802.11ac will never be applicable to 2.4GHz radios,
and is what I have wroted on first post...

I wrote so, and it remains so.

What @Guntis wrote is about the driver, not about the Wave 2 for 802.11ac tecnology:

Small correction, WifiWave2 driver does support 2.4GHz interfaces, [...]

If instead you want to say that the MikroTik package called wifiwave2 also contains drivers for some 2.4GHz wifi chips,
it doesn't mean that those will go in "ac" Wave 2...

Or prove me otherwise by configuring on your hAP ac3 the 2.4GHz wlan in "2GHz AC" mode ...

@holvoetn, all is ok!!!

Ask @anav... I probably for sure express myself badly...

mkx · Fri May 20, 2022 9:09 pm

@rextended, let me quote OP for you:

As of the release of RouterOS 7.1 the 2.4GHz wireless interface on the RB4011iGS+5HacQ2HnD is not compatible with the wifiwave2 package.

Anybody knows if 2.4GHz interface will be supported in any future releases?

So, OP wasn't asking about wave 2 802.11ac, OP was asking about support for RB4011's 2.4GHz interface as he wanted to use wifiwave2 driver for better 5GHz performance.

It's a pitty @Guntis couldn't shed any light ... I guess that MT could make legacy wireless driver and wifiwave2 driver to work side by side ... but it might be too much of work. Which means poor owners of RB4011 would be left to choose between two bad choices: either a) stay with mediocre 5GHz performance offered by legacy wireless driver or b) stay without 2.4GHz signal. My take would be option b) but not everybody can live without 2.4GHz wireless ... yet.

bpwl · Sat May 21, 2022 12:01 am

Well well well a lot of confusing statements here. What is Mikrotik claiming when they say, they can do 400Mbps on a 40MHz wide 2.4GHz channel?
It looks as something impossible. https://meraki.cisco.com/blog/2013/08/4 ... t-802-11ac And Mikrotik then naming this "wifiwave2" adds further to the great confusion.

If you look in that MT help file, you see indeed that speed claim. "400Mb/s maximum data rate in the 2.4GHz band for IPQ4019 interfaces" https://help.mikrotik.com/docs/display/ROS/WifiWave2

Very unexpected, as 802.11ac is not defined for the 2.4GHz band. It is defined for the 5 GHz band. This is about standards and can be found on many places. OK some brands may define their own extensions, but compatibility can be an issue.https://www.arubanetworks.com/pdf/techn ... nDepth.pdf

Also based on the 802.11n and 802.11ac knowledge and experience , the beacons and MCS definitions are quite different for both protocols.Where 802.11n uses HT MCS (numbered up to MCS23 as the way multistream is defined for n, 802.11ac uses VHT MCS, numbered up to MCS09 per stream. https://mcsindex.com/.
802.11ac wave2 was an improvement of 802.11ac , but here the 2.4GHz band is still left aside of this standard, as that band is supposed to use 802.11n.

So how can MT claim 400Mbps?? Well the answer may be in the same help file:

Klembord-2.jpg

.
They are not running 802.11ac or 802.11 ac wave2 on the 2.4GHz interfaces. The 2.4GHz only got an upgrade from 802.11n (wifi 4) with the 802.11ax (wifi6) standard.
So this wifiwave2 driver (what's in a name?) is not about wifi5 wave 2 , but about wifi 6. Here the MCS rates are defined as HE (not as VHT) Different animal, no 0.4µs SGI, and different rates also when in ax. Not clear what MT is bringing here. And does the client now need to support 802.11ax (wifi6) to be able to connect ???? And if it is 802.11ax then the interface rate is 458.8Mbps, according to MCSINDEX!? Are there other things from 802.11ax available? Why not call it wifi 6 ? If hAP ac3 is a wifi 6 device, it should be all over the marketing documents.

anav · Sat May 21, 2022 12:15 am

I promise I wont advise other vendor products, but I do wonder if anyone at MT, knows anything about wifi because it sure seems to be a dogs breakfast.
One gets the feeling long ago they had an old person really experienced at wifi, who retired, and they just have not made the effort to find a credible replacement and the new guys
just care about long range wisp fun stuff.
All the more reason they should hire bpwl to help get out of this mess.

bpwl · Sat May 21, 2022 12:50 am

That 400Mbps claim in 2.4GHz is found on other hardware/software also. Not clear what the client requirements are. Must be some 2.4GHz standards extension?
If hAP ac3 is 802.11ax compliant but not yet wifi 6 certified, we might start to learn what that could bring to us . Like in https://documentation.meraki.com/MR/WiF ... ical_Guide , BSS coloring, is it there ?

Ca6ko · Sat May 21, 2022 1:31 pm

400 mbps in 2.4 GHz is using VHT 8-9 modulation in this band. This is not a standard tweak, like Nstreme, NV2. It only works between Mikrotik devices.
Hap ac3 on the IPQ-4019, and it does not support the AX standard.

Sat May 21, 2022 5:19 pm

i have seen some AC products of other vendors offering that same 400mbps figure on 2.4ghz, but not a word about client requirements to reach that

in theory 400mbps is using 256qam on 2.4ghz to reach 200mbps per spatial stream

some vendors even offer 1024qam on 2.4ghz to reach 250mbps per spatial stream offering 4x4:4 to reach 1.000 mbps on 2.4ghz in theory

i cant find any test about it

bpwl · Sat May 21, 2022 5:51 pm

It is also found under the name TurboQAM: "Broadcom TurboQAM technology super-charges 2.4 GHz 802.11n performance from 300 Mbps to 400 Mbps with compatible devices"
http://en.techinfodepot.shoutwiki.com/w ... m_TurboQAM

carl0s · Mon May 23, 2022 8:52 pm

Well anyway, the point was, the OP's question was about the rOS v7 alternate-wifi driver packaged named 'Wifiwave2'. Simples.

gotsprings · Tue May 24, 2022 2:10 pm

Once I enabled Wave 2 drivers... No more caps-man.
Also access control lists didn't work anymore in standalone mode.

Tue May 24, 2022 4:59 pm

Once I enabled Wave 2 drivers... No more caps-man.
Also access control lists didn't work anymore in standalone mode.

On that same Help page from Mikrotik related to wifiwave2, in a red box so hard to miss...

Installing the wifiwave2 package disables other means of configuring wireless interfaces.
Before installation, make sure to back up any wireless and CAPsMAN configuration you may want to retain.

gotsprings · Tue May 24, 2022 5:28 pm

Once I enabled Wave 2 drivers... No more caps-man.
Also access control lists didn't work anymore in standalone mode.
On that same Help page from Mikrotik related to wifiwave2, in a red box so hard to miss...
Code: Select all
Installing the wifiwave2 package disables other means of configuring wireless interfaces.
Before installation, make sure to back up any wireless and CAPsMAN configuration you may want to retain.

Ohh I knew it was going to happen. But the point was... the WAVE 2 driver affected the 2.4.
Also the breaking of my ACLs was not helpful, at all.

carl0s · Wed May 25, 2022 7:56 pm

Yes I also won't/can't look at wifiwave2 package until capsman supports it.

bublikoff · Sun Jun 05, 2022 11:19 am

Maybe Mikrotik will allow to work Wave2 for 5Ghz and non Wave2 2.4Ghz at the same time?

Sun Jun 05, 2022 11:50 am

Maybe Mikrotik will allow to work Wave2 for 5Ghz and non Wave2 2.4Ghz at the same time?

I wouldn't put any money on that happening.

anuser · Sun Jun 05, 2022 12:23 pm

I'm dreaming of a wifiwave2 driver package for IPQ4018/IPQ4019 based MikroTik access points like hAP ac2 and cAP ac with 128 MB of RAM and 16 MB of ROM. Looking into the current big wifiwave2 driver package it should be possible to extract all IPQ40xx parts and provide a smaller wifiwave2 lite package for older devices.

PKSpeleo · Thu Jul 21, 2022 3:16 pm

Any news about this topic?
Is it any plans to enable 2ghz wifi with wave2 drivers?

whatever · Fri Jul 22, 2022 4:29 pm

I wouldn't count on it. The current status looks like you have to buy "new" (less old) hardware to benefit from wifiwave2, with rb4011 or hap ac2 you are stuck with the old driver.

Unless MT releases stable, good performing WiFi-6(E) hardware, I will not spend any more money on their wifi stuff.

gotsprings · Fri Jul 22, 2022 6:54 pm

Any news about this topic?
Is it any plans to enable 2ghz wifi with wave2 drivers?

Just get over it and pick a different manufacture for wifi.

You will get much better results.

Maggiore81 · Mon Nov 21, 2022 10:44 pm

Hello
any news as of 7.6 on 4011?
if we enable the wave2 drivers, can we have standard wifi on 2.4ghz ?

I used with success the hap ac3 with wave2 drivers and everything works perfect.
I have 4011 in production and I cannot just make tests on 4011.
anyone has 4011 and wave2 drivers?
does it work correctly also the 2.4g?
thank you

gotsprings · Tue Nov 22, 2022 4:57 am

Edit:
Removed as it was over the top.

My apologies.

Tue Nov 22, 2022 9:41 am

Don't be so negative, we do have WiFi 6 devices.
MikroTk previously did not make plug-n-play home devices for average Joes. Our drivers were custom made for professional use, they had tons of features no chinese manufacturer has. This is why WiFi 5-wave2 drivers are so different, they are the chip manufacturer drivers with no extra functionality.

Ca6ko · Sat Nov 26, 2022 8:16 am

So we don't mind.
The question is to add to ROS 7 the ability to work the old driver for one interface wlan and wifiwave2 for the other interface, if these interfaces wlan on different chips.

BrateloSlava · Sun Nov 27, 2022 9:57 pm

I understand correctly? Will the new wireless drivers (and the new capsman) only be compatible with the new wifi 6 hardware? And in the future there will be two "branches" of ROS - for wifi 6 devices and for the "rest of the old"?

woland · Sun Nov 27, 2022 11:21 pm

I hope you do not understand it correctly!

I obviously don´t know this but I would love to have a mix of ax and ac devices configured the same way soon and using just one single CapsMAN.
Everything else would be a mess and I'm afraid in the end it will turn out to be a mess...

MircoADM · Sun Jan 01, 2023 2:55 pm

Hello
any news as of 7.6 on 4011?
if we enable the wave2 drivers, can we have standard wifi on 2.4ghz ?

I used with success the hap ac3 with wave2 drivers and everything works perfect.
I have 4011 in production and I cannot just make tests on 4011.
anyone has 4011 and wave2 drivers?
does it work correctly also the 2.4g?
thank you

Hello, it's very very simple:
Read the ROS release notes
Only when it says:
"2.4G wifi available with WW2 driver on RB 4011 unit" - however implemented

Before that, there are exactly ZERO possibilities

Only the following options:
1. Use WiFi (both 2.4G and 5G) from another manufacturer and the RB4011 only for routing (all WiFi devices off)
2. Use WW2 and use another manufacturer for 2.4G
3. Use WW2 and use a small MT device (mAP lite) on port ETH10 via PoE for 2.4G
4.Don't use WW2 on RB4011 - wifi 2.4G and wifi5G with the old driver
5. Wait - wait - a long time and hope!

Greetings and a good start into the new year 2023

andyhenckel · Thu Mar 02, 2023 5:55 pm

It's all a bit confusing. and from the documentation, NV2 and station-bridge are not supported with wave2 driver? I see hap ax, but no netmetal AX. Dear Mtik, we really need this. Many of us have lots of AC stuff out there, but will loose competitive edge against other operators soon if we cannot deliver 200-1400 mbps to clients over5gHz x 320mHz channels QAM4096 with AX up to 7gbps AP capacity, as other vendors are now advertising. Sadly, I've waited long enough and had to spend money with another vendors wireless product this spring for my Short range offering. I like 60gHz, until it rains or a bird lands on the stamp sized antenna. I plan to utilize 60 for short short range, but 5 gig is better where there might be a bush or partial tree obstruction. We have 4 sites with adequate backhaul or fiber, where we are putting in High density systems for up to 200 home subdivisions. I'd rather spend the money for a device with ROS, but I'll have to do what is necessary to stay competitive in the marketplace.

Is there any definite release date for an outdoor, Mimo 2 or 4 AX Netmetal or Basebox with SFP+?, and TDMA/NV2?

With Love,
Andy

DDDM · Sun Jan 21, 2024 12:58 pm

Hello
I'm using the existing topic .
How to get working Wave2 on AC 5Ghz ?
Can you help me to adjust the settings ?
Now I'm using the old wifi and I'm pissed because I cannot get more than 110Mbps using the AC network no matter what kind of configuration I'm trying.

mkx · Sun Jan 21, 2024 4:29 pm

Basically:

upgrade to ROS 7.13.2
If you want to avoid netinstall, then upgrade path is via 7.12
when on 7.13.2, uninstall wireless package and install wifi-qcom-ac (part of extras)
configure wifi from scratch, new config layout doesn't resemble the old config layout, so forget the idea of copy-paste anything from your current wireless config
Use https://help.mikrotik.com/docs/display/ROS/WiFi as reference. And definitely configure wifi channels as the Tx power of channels which ROS seems to prefer (upper part of 5.7GHz region) is often limited to low values.
if you need some concrete help with settings, come back (showing what you'll have when you get stuck)

anav · Sun Jan 21, 2024 5:47 pm

To flesh out the wifi options:
discussion:
viewtopic.php?t=202578

MT docs page:
https://help.mikrotik.com/docs/display/ ... s+packages

DDDM · Sun Jan 21, 2024 9:25 pm

Thanks for those guidelines!

when on 7.13.2, uninstall wireless package and install wifi-qcom-ac (part of extras)

May be I misunderstood but I would like to keep my 2.4Ghz network working (I know wave2 it's not compatible to N standard card installed) beside that I would like to be able to use wave2 driver per 5Ghz network - AC network.

Sun Jan 21, 2024 9:35 pm

Can not have both.
You need to choose.

DDDM · Sun Jan 21, 2024 10:55 pm

Thank you guys!

I understood that I spent 220$ - the worst spent money for this piece of garbage and hours of trying to get usable AC network.

Thanks once again!!!

dwnldr · Sun Mar 03, 2024 2:23 am

We have the great opportunity now with wifiwave2 drivers. It would be awesome to have finally also the possibility (even/probably with R11 swap) to use them on this still great and EXPENSIVE powermachine ! Every single model, even the hap ac2 smokes the 4011 waaaay out with its WiFi performance ! I have now this half year old beast with 160MHz 5G as paperweight, because i can have double the WiFi speed with a entry level device... I know, that primary focus 4011 wasnt as "AP", but since version like this was released and sold, it would be really customer "friendly" to give us at least the opportunity for upgrade ! Im ready to BUY, ready to spend, just give us the needed hardware/software !

tssge · Thu May 02, 2024 8:27 am

I have made a guide on how to have both Wave2 and Wireless simultaneously in use on RB4011, eg. how to have Wave2 on 5Ghz interface and still use 2,4GHz interface normally at the same time.

Please see viewtopic.php?t=207245 for more information.

Thu May 02, 2024 1:14 pm

Sorry to say, but that is a glitch in the package manager. You managed to fool it into showing both packages active, but both interfaces will not work at the same time, there will be all kinds of problems.

tssge · Thu May 02, 2024 1:43 pm

Sorry to say, but that is a glitch in the package manager. You managed to fool it into showing both packages active, but both interfaces will not work at the same time, there will be all kinds of problems.

2024-05-02_12-40-40.png

Both interfaces do in fact work at the same time, but there might be all kinds of problems. I just had the router panic (though this might also be because I am running from Testing channel). However if you would be kind enough to not "fix" this, as it works well for home scenario where such issues are fine.

Just to note that I've been running this setup for a month now without bigger issues, but more niche wireless features might be totally unusable with this setup running into all kinds of issues.

Thu May 02, 2024 1:45 pm

In our tests, it will not work and will only cause issues, which are not easy to fix.

tssge · Thu May 02, 2024 1:50 pm

In our tests, it will not work and will only cause issues, which are not easy to fix.

I am sure it will, especially with more complex features and that is why I think it is designed to not be allowed. However my use case is just bog-standard 802.11 without anything extra and it seems to work fine in this case.

Thu May 02, 2024 2:13 pm

Except crashing, that you mentioned? That's no big deal?

mbovenka · Thu May 02, 2024 2:20 pm

Except crashing, that you mentioned? That's no big deal?

Not neccessarily. The OP talks about a home setup; the box randomly rebooting say, once a month may well be acceptable if it buys him the ability to use the 2.4Ghz band when needed.

tssge · Thu May 02, 2024 2:24 pm

Except crashing, that you mentioned? That's no big deal?

It's the first crash so far within a month of usage and happened while I was dealing with Wireguard after updating to RouterOS 7.15rc2 this morning.

But yes, such would be a big deal in work scenario. However my particular scenario is home access point in a 70s building with VDSL running through phone wires probably half corroded two decades ago with our dog having eaten most of the copper off on the apartment side and the connection barely hangs on two dangling strings of copper that my roommate twisted back into the wall with bare hands. So yes, not a big deal in this particular scenario.