Mangle Feature Request

BrianHiggins · Tue Mar 20, 2007 5:14 pm

under mangle rules -> General, I would like to see a packet matching option for VoIP, just like we see for P2P, and be able to select either All, SIP, IAX, Skype, etc...

changeip · Tue Mar 20, 2007 6:09 pm

I believe in 3.0 there is a SIP matcher.

Sam

eugenevdm · Wed May 09, 2007 12:45 am

* As changeip says SIP helper available in version 3

* IAX2 should be easy to mangle because it's always UDP port 4569

* Word on the street is it's not possible to mangle Skype's p2p-like algorythm

janisk · Wed May 09, 2007 8:37 am

* Word on the street is it's not possible to mangle Skype's p2p-like algorythm

skype uses encrypted kazaa, thats why you cannot do much about skype

Wed May 09, 2007 9:09 am

* Word on the street is it's not possible to mangle Skype's p2p-like algorythm
skype uses encrypted kazaa, thats why you cannot do much about skype

actually it's not kazaa, it's something more advanced. plus skype is so clever that it tries to use HTTP and HTTPS is if all else fails.

eugenevdm · Wed May 09, 2007 9:35 am

Quote from Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skype
"and its extreme[citation needed] countermeasures against reverse engineering of the software or protocol."

From elsewhere in this forum:

An Analysis of the Skype Peer-to-Peer Internet Telephony Protocol
http://www1.cs.columbia.edu/~library/TR ... 039-04.pdf

Wikipedia info on Skype Protocol (newer information that first PDF)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skype_Protocol

I found only one company that claims their product can shape Skype:
http://www.allot.com/index.php?option=c ... Itemid=159

The press release says the product starts at $ 50,000!

So for the time being it looks like we don't have easy Skype shaping or mangling unless Skype wants us to have it.

Wed May 09, 2007 10:04 am

We have already done all the research, it seems possible, but it is so difficult that I'm not sure if it's worth it.

arions · Sat Jun 02, 2007 3:45 pm

Hi all ,

what about encripted p2p protocols in mangle (like encripted torrents) ? I have lot of problems with that kind of trafic.

mcozio · Mon Oct 01, 2007 9:53 pm

well, you should take a look on ellacoya e30 switch to manage bandwith,
It has almost all possible traffic - p2p, skype , voip, sip - more then 200 possible kinds etc, mayby MT should have something similar

WirelessRudy · Tue Oct 02, 2007 2:59 am

We have already done all the research, it seems possible, but it is so difficult that I'm not sure if it's worth it.

Most WISPs want to mangle Skype to control or even block it due bandwith consumption reasons or they want to sell their own Voip services. Skype is so clever that it seems to be impossible to control unless you're willing to give up most of your connectivity to the internet.

But what about helping Skype? If you have plenty of bandwith available but want to quarantee Skype connectivity even under the circumstances the network might become congested, Qos. There must be ways to help Skype.
OK, the new router OS might have a SIP helper, but does it help Skype?
And what about having a big network with v2.9 OS only? We don't want to change to the new v3.xx untill it is thorougly tested and been proven stable.

Skype client software can be installed with setting for use with given ports. The network operator should assign a block of ports in the high regions (not in use by other applications) and instruct Skype users to alter their installation of Skype to have a port assigned in that block of ports? Have udp and tcp traffic in this port range prioritized with the max. tos value.
At the same time have the mangle for that range of ports filter P2P programs we don't want.

Is this a route to go?
Both Skype and MT must be happy if their product can do something good for eachother?
As Wisp the gain would be Skype promotion for the network! Skype is very popular and networks not serving it well will struggle in the end. Its better to go with the flow....
Some of you cracks at MT must be able to achieve something in this field?

mac86 · Tue Oct 02, 2007 3:48 am

You can use Layer7 protocol (from last RouterOS 3 version)

with Layer7 you can match a lot of traffic applications

...
wiki	skypeout	[slow] [slow] 	ok 	[VoIP][P2P][Proprietary]	overmatch 	Skype to phone - UDP voice call (program to POTS phone) - http://skype.com
wiki	skypetoskype	[fast] [fast] 	ok 	[VoIP][P2P][Proprietary]	overmatch 	Skype to Skype - UDP voice call (program to program) - http://skype.com
.....

complete list patterns matching with layer 7:

http://l7-filter.sourceforge.net/protocols

Regards!

BrianHiggins · Tue Oct 02, 2007 8:18 am

under mangle rules -> General, I would like to see a packet matching option for VoIP, just like we see for P2P, and be able to select either All, SIP, IAX, Skype, etc...

it seems this thread got a little off topic... yes v3.0 has a SIP helper, but there is no VoIP matching mangle rule. We have the PtP filters, now we need a matching VoIP filter to use in mangle and filter rules, just like the PtP ones so that we can create a mangle rule that changes the TCP TOS of all VoIP traffic to 16, or packet mark it and set a queue for that packer mark.

jorj · Wed Oct 03, 2007 3:33 pm

I would't believe i would ever have to say that, but if you want to do something about skype, you could use brazilfw or coyote and add the l7filter package. You just need a fast pc with a floppy. ( fast, 'cause skype is sloooooow in detection as said earlier).

Wed Oct 03, 2007 4:17 pm

we tested skype with the new l7. works great!

jorj · Wed Oct 03, 2007 5:59 pm

Yes he is right.
It is catching it, at least for skype to skype. I have to study more of this. Or convince some others to run it, and see what I get.

Don't know yet the cpu usage, i am using it with vmware, and the impact of the emulated network cards on the overall performance is yet unclear to me at the moment.

BrianHiggins · Wed Oct 03, 2007 6:01 pm

we tested skype with the new l7. works great!

what about other VoIP protocols?

are there going to be default L7 filters for VoIP included in future releases, or are you going to publish them somewhere (If they are ever going to be changing or adapting, I would prefer they were included)

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