MikroTik

Posted: **Thu Jul 30, 2020 5:16 pm**

Years ago, when Station-Bridge + Virtual AP mode ("repeater mode") came out in RouterOS, I performed some speed tests using that mode compared to WDS-Slave mode, which essentially is the same solution for wireless backhaul + AP, sharing the same radio.

In my tests, the repeater mode was a little faster than the WDS mode. From my reading, this is also the preferred mode used by the Audience product's so-called "mesh" feature when using WPS to join an extension to an AP (1. Station-Bridge, 2. WDS-Slave, 3. Station-Pseudobridge, 4. Station-Pseudobridge-Clone).

But later, about a year ago, I was having problems where stations would be blocked on the repeater device, with a log message stating that the MAC was present on another port. Basically it was acting like a bridge/switch loop was occurring, or the MAC FIB wasn't properly being updated or aged out. I opened a trouble ticket, but never heard back. So I switched to WDS-Slave mode, and that solved the problem.

I now need to build 15 more networks using 2 to 5 devices in ptp or ptmp, and feel like I should use WDS-Slave for safety, because I don't want to run into the frustrating problem I had in repeater mode.

I have two questions:

Why would repeater mode be faster than WDS-Slave? Is there additional overhead? What is it?
Apart from speed, is there any other reason that repeater mode is the new preferred method over WDS-Slave?

Thanks!

Posted: **Thu Jul 30, 2020 6:33 pm**

I would have thought whatever mode made use of two radios was superior.
Preferably Single receiver directional Antenna/AP (ptp), ethernet to second AP/omni or directional Antenna for local distribution.
Otherwise Single AP, dual antenna (receive/tx ptp on directional 2ghz radio) and then distribute locally on omni or directional antenna at 5ghz.
Newer gear works at 60HZ for a cleaner/faster ptp link and then ethernet to a second AP for local distribution.

Not sure what setup you are trying to do?

Posted: **Thu Jul 30, 2020 10:49 pm**

This is indoors, household application.

In some cases Audience will be used and the 4-chain 5 GHz radio will be used for the backhaul with a different SSID to keep regular stations off.

In other cases, due to slower Internet speed, the additional speed provided by Audience having the extra radio is unwarranted due to its quite high expense. In these cases, depending on range and port requirements at the extension, hAP ac or wAP ac will be used. These have a single 5 GHz radio and will be used for the backhaul and stations.

The question wasn't about the ptp or ptmp or model/radio/antennas details, but rather given the option of station-bridge/vap or slave-wds, why is the first preferred from MikroTik, and why is it faster (from my dated testing... will test again soon).

I am donating my time and skills to configure these and send out as customized solutions. I do not want calls because of the problem I encountered in my own house when I was using the station-bridge/vap method. So unless there is a very compelling reason to try it again, I will likely go for the slave-wds method since it has always worked for me. Reliability is more important than speed in this case.

Posted: **Thu Aug 06, 2020 12:50 am**

I have received the first half of the devices, including 17 Audience.

I am considering changing the default wlan3 from repeater mode to wds-slave. This has the added benefit of allowing the extension nodes to associate with different nodes as conditions change, a self-healing configuration. The downside to this change is that adding additional Audience nodes would set them up in repeater mode and so I would need to assist the user in switching the configuration, though this can be done easily with a script.

I will do some tests with 3-4 Audience nodes both in default repeater mode as well as wds-slave mode to see if I can isolate any big differences in performance, roaming, stability, etc.

Posted: **Thu Aug 06, 2020 3:07 pm**

Years ago, when Station-Bridge + Virtual AP mode ("repeater mode") came out in RouterOS, I performed some speed tests using that mode compared to WDS-Slave mode, which essentially is the same solution for wireless backhaul + AP, sharing the same radio.

In my tests, the repeater mode was a little faster than the WDS mode. From my reading, this is also the preferred mode used by the Audience product's so-called "mesh" feature when using WPS to join an extension to an AP (1. Station-Bridge, 2. WDS-Slave, 3. Station-Pseudobridge, 4. Station-Pseudobridge-Clone).

But later, about a year ago, I was having problems where stations would be blocked on the repeater device, with a log message stating that the MAC was present on another port. Basically it was acting like a bridge/switch loop was occurring, or the MAC FIB wasn't properly being updated or aged out. I opened a trouble ticket, but never heard back. So I switched to WDS-Slave mode, and that solved the problem.

I now need to build 15 more networks using 2 to 5 devices in ptp or ptmp, and feel like I should use WDS-Slave for safety, because I don't want to run into the frustrating problem I had in repeater mode.

I have two questions:

Why would repeater mode be faster than WDS-Slave? Is there additional overhead? What is it?

Apart from speed, is there any other reason that repeater mode is the new preferred method over WDS-Slave?

Thanks!

The Mikrotik WIKI states:

"Station-bridge
This mode is safe to use for L2 bridging and is the preferred mode unless there are specific reasons to use station-wds mode. "

... and it works very well to my experience.

WDS, at least for other brands (!) , does not have the same features of an AP-station connection, things like aggregation were not possible, giving a lower performance.

"But later, about a year ago, I was having problems where stations would be blocked on the repeater device, with a log message stating that the MAC was present on another port. Basically it was acting like a bridge/switch loop was occurring, or the MAC FIB wasn't properly being updated or aged out. I opened a trouble ticket, but never heard back. So I switched to WDS-Slave mode, and that solved the problem."

You are sure you did not do backup the station configuration and restore in another device to make a clone? This would create devices with identical MAC addresses.

Posted: **Fri Aug 07, 2020 1:16 am**

You are sure you did not do backup the station configuration and restore in another device to make a clone? This would create devices with identical MAC addresses.

Yep, I'm well aware of that problem.

Posted: **Fri Aug 07, 2020 1:39 am**

You are sure you did not do backup the station configuration and restore in another device to make a clone? This would create devices with identical MAC addresses.
Yep, I'm well aware of that problem.

OK, excellent. I did see in the past problems with false loop detect. STP/RSTP is sometimes a nasty thing with MKT, like timing issues with a DHCP server on the bridge with WLAN interfaces.

Posted: **Fri Aug 07, 2020 5:09 pm**

I have the first router and first AP configured. I'm going to add the second AP later tonight and then do some testing. So far I've kept everything in repeater mode for ease-of-setup.

I'm worried that switching to wds-slave may interfere with future WPS pairing of new APs, should they need that. I don't want to require them to call me.

If by chance WPS pairing still works automagically with wds-slave, I will probably switch them all to wds-slave so that the APs that I configure can dynamically roam and mesh to the strongest AP rather than requiring a strong dependency to a single AP as happens with the WPS pairing and dynamic keys. Of course if they add more extensions using WPS that won't be the case, but at least they would still be able to add them without my intervention.

I'll reply back tonight or this weekend on how everything went. I'll also have my turn-up tweak scripts published to github by then.

MikroTik

Prefer Station-Bridge+Virtual AP over WDS-Slave, Why?

Prefer Station-Bridge+Virtual AP over WDS-Slave, Why?

Re: Prefer Station-Bridge+Virtual AP over WDS-Slave, Why?

Re: Prefer Station-Bridge+Virtual AP over WDS-Slave, Why?

Re: Prefer Station-Bridge+Virtual AP over WDS-Slave, Why?

Re: Prefer Station-Bridge+Virtual AP over WDS-Slave, Why?

Re: Prefer Station-Bridge+Virtual AP over WDS-Slave, Why?

Re: Prefer Station-Bridge+Virtual AP over WDS-Slave, Why?

Re: Prefer Station-Bridge+Virtual AP over WDS-Slave, Why?