MikroTik

<mikrotik doesn't care anyway>

What you write is complete nonsense. We have been giving out source code according to GPL requirements for many many years. This is why I asked if you only rely on 10 year old posts or you actually tried to ask yourself

@Normis - despite of that part, the rest is pure gold. Think it over.

<mikrotik doesn't care anyway>

This is not true, I don't know what to tell you. Maybe you were banned from the forum for your style or angry writing, not for asking about gpl. Just let out your anger in some other place and simply go and ask mikrotik for the GPL source. Maybe if you tried it, you would know the truth.

<mikrotik doesn't care anyway>

If you need full GPL source, just email mikrotik, this topic is about 7.12 problems. Here nobody can give you source code.

If software has it's roots in GPL-based projects, then the entire software must also be under GPL license.

This logic does not make sense. In that case closed source drivers would not exist, and you would not be able to run any commercial software, and commercial linux distros would not exist.
Or even more absurdity from your logic, any software compiled with GPL tools should also be opensource?

<mikrotik doesn't care anyway>

not everyone agrees with this "logic", it is only one opinion, there is a lot of discussion about this in the open source world

<mikrotik doesn't care anyway>

Did you read the rest of the page? Check point e)

<mikrotik doesn't care anyway>

It has already been done! We have been in contact with FSF.
Like I told you many times, you are basing your opionion on somebody who posted in the forum 10 years ago.
This is the wrong topic for this.

<mikrotik doesn't care anyway>

So that it's not just public disinformation, post your mikrotik ticket number where you were denied the source code.

So that it's not just public disinformation, post your mikrotik ticket number where you were denied the source code.

I don't know what that number would change to the public and I don't know why you are accusing me of disinformation. If your practices were changed since the time I asked, then anybody can easily verify it at anytime right now.

From https://mikrotik.com/downloadterms.html

This CD will only include the source code of the following programs and any non-proprietary programs distributed according to license requirements.
This CD will not include MikroTikls proprietary SOFTWARE.

I am - one more time - VERY disappointed of the way how you treat customers, especially those like me who point out what's wrong with your products from the user's point of view - that should be valuable to you. I dedicated two hours of my time to talk to you and the level of the conversation reached the point at which I don't want to devote my time anymore, as you are not interested in finding solutions, but focusing on eristics. For me, the topic is closed.

@rtlx: if you make suggestions like "fire 90% of the staff" you are completely disqualifying yourself, or any valid points you might be making. Are you a member of the team, knowing all the intrinsic workings of this company? Or do you come to this conclusion perhaps 1000s of km away from the company?

If you are unhappy with the product, it is very easy to change to a different vendor...

Hi,

I am not familiar with the OP, as it has been edited. It sounds as if there is some argument regarding the source code (of what exactly?)

If I may just use the context and add my 2 cents:

When I read something like "To get a CD with the corresponding source code for the GPL-covered programs in this distribution, wire transfer $45 to MikroTikls SIA" I wonder what the expectations of the text author were and how many actually paid for something which is unavailable for $0 anyway. What were the money used for? - Donations to the FSF? Or to the free software projects sharing their work publicly?

Making all the software of Mikrotik free (as in freedom) will only bring thousands of new happy customers and a significant commercial boost to the company. There is absolutely nothing to loose from that. It is not RouterOS being closed that makes Mikrotik products great and competitive. It is what makes them great with a big grain of salt.

Speaking of "fundamental problems" (whatever meaning this may have implied):

Fixing the current "documentation" and its difficult-to-read-kind-of-machine-translated-not-really-English language would add another boost. FWIW, I do have an unreplied ticket on the subject (133320) since 3.Nov.2023.

Considering the edits, I may be out of line here.
But who am I to talk anyway? Just some paying customer struggling to find one's way...

Fake news :cnn:
Nobody is asking $45 USD to get GPL covered source.

I have no idea what <mikrotik doesn't care> about, but this thread is annoying me, so let me put it out: I've been writing small scale open-source for 20+ years now. I'm a Debian maintainer, and I care about OSS.

However, I'm not a zealot about it. I'd rather have Mikrotik continue to be successful and me not having access to their closed drivers, than have Mikrotik publish everything, have it cloned by random company, and them going under. No thanks.

Could things be improved on the transparency? Possibly. As an external users, without understanding the constraints of the company, saying "I know better" smells a lot like lack of maturity. Running a company successfully is _hard_, and is much more about economics than OSS vs closed source.

I'd rather have Mikrotik be able to offer more customised hardware (e.g. allowing choice of POE vs. non POE, stock vs. custom cooling for better home office noise, allow paying for more RAM/Flash), than getting the source code. I wish I had a CRS-610-8P-2S+ instead of CSS, or alternatively a CRS-310-8G+2S+ with Noctua fans. Etc. etc. etc. But saying they don't care? After reading the 7.12 and 7.13 beta threads? Come on…

Other than the insightful comments by justin, and factual comments by Mrz and Normis, the rest of this thread is Fake News and annoying whining. Rather than being insighful, the author of this thread is trying to incite some anger for a nothing-burger. Yawn!!
Please Delete this thread, I could have spent my time more productively, like cleaning the cats litterbox.

Someone change the title... since this about obtaining the GPL source.

Nobody is asking $45 USD to get GPL covered source.

In fairness, I think the software license agreement does list $45 duplication fee.

To get a CD with the corresponding source code for the GPL-covered programs in this distribution, wire transfer $45 to MikroTikls SIA, Ūnijas iela 2, Riga, LV-1039, Latvia. Please contact MikroTikls SIA for our current account information and wire transfer instructions. Offer valid for three years from the date of distribution of this software. This CD will only include the source code of the following programs and any non-proprietary programs distributed according to license requirements. This CD will not include MikroTikls proprietary SOFTWARE.

have Mikrotik publish everything, have it cloned by random company, and them going under.

So, this is how it works.

Someone change the title... since this about obtaining the GPL source.

Nobody is asking $45 USD to get GPL covered source.

In fairness, I think the software license agreement does list $45 duplication fee.

To get a CD with the corresponding source code for the GPL-covered programs in this distribution, wire transfer $45 to MikroTikls SIA, Ūnijas iela 2, Riga, LV-1039, Latvia. Please contact MikroTikls SIA for our current account information and wire transfer instructions. Offer valid for three years from the date of distribution of this software. This CD will only include the source code of the following programs and any non-proprietary programs distributed according to license requirements. This CD will not include MikroTikls proprietary SOFTWARE.

Whats your point?? Who has CDs anymore.
a. you gotta buy it blanks//
b. you gotta pay someone to ensure they have the right info and then burn it
c. you gotta ship it.

Do you get everything in life for free Ammo??

Oh, I'm not interested.
Just noted that what the license agreement says. And a reasonable fee is allowed by GPL. So I'm just not sure what the issue is here.

Other than the insightful comments by justin, and factual comments by Mrz and Normis, the rest of this thread is Fake News and annoying whining.

If a quoted text is fake news, then blame the author, instead of suggesting to silence those who read and try to understand it.

Do you get everything in life for free Ammo??

Free software is about freedom, not about gratis. So, the right question is what do you own after you pay, if someone else (the proprietor) actually owns it, can control it without your knowledge and can therefore influence your life (not just for free but with you paying for it). I am not saying Mikrotik does nasty things to you through deliberately hidden backdoors (and I am not saying it does not because I simply have no evidence). What I mean is you are denied the freedom to control the hardware you buy in a way you may want.

Nobody is forcing to order a CD and pay for preparing it and shipping.
As it is already mentioned by normis, write to support and ask and you will get the GPL-covered source without charge.

Like I said, delete this thread its a farce from the get go.

Nobody is forcing to order a CD and pay for preparing it and shipping.

How about that documentation? I am practically forced to waste time in rereading sentences multiple times while trying to clarify what the (obviously) non-English speaker meant through an ugly translation. Is that what customers deserve? Is that even professional?

As it is already mentioned by normis, write to support and ask and you will get the GPL-covered source without charge.

I did write to support about the docs 13 days ago. No reply. I highly doubt that volume of text will be corrected any time soon. Considering the diffs between the recently edited pages and the previous versions don't even touch the terrible grammar, I actually question editors' capacity to do anything about it.

Sorry if that sounds harsh but I am somewhat disappointed, considering all the nice recommendations. I still like the products but it is a nightmare to learn from those texts. Please understand.

BTW your RSS feeds are bugged. Whenever a document page gets an update its feed item appears as unread but with its original (old) date, e.g. 2021-09-20, instead of the date it was edited.

Nobody is forcing to order a CD and pay for preparing it and shipping.

How about that documentation? I am practically forced to waste time in rereading sentences multiple times while trying to clarify what the (obviously) non-English speaker meant through an ugly translation. Is that what customers deserve? Is that even professional?

IMO documentation is pretty decent, specially if you compare it to some documentation, originating in China.

IMO documentation is pretty decent, specially if you compare it to some documentation, originating in China.

For a trained IT network engineer, concur. For a fly by night DYI its woefully inadequate but since everything is based on logic and rules, no mountain is too high and there is always some smart "-ss" err cat, who will have answers.

For a, quote: "For a fly by night DYI", gear with youtube tutorials, provided by vendor and with actors speaking various dialects[*], is the best choice. With anything else, one is on his own. Umm, wait a minute, isn't this a part of DIY concept? Now I'm confused.

[*] it would be unfair to expect that everybody understands native speaker with Californian or Cornish or, God forbid, Novascotian accent. So the accent used by narrator in the tutorial really should be viewer-selectable (if not viewer-settable ).

But the complaint which I replied to was about language (poor translation was mentioned), not about how adequate it is.

BTW, I'm not a trained IT network engineer (if I forget about a few telco network courses I was forced to attend a decade or two ago ), but I still manage with MT documentation somehow.