Dual band AP for home use, SSID same or different?

Tue Jun 16, 2015 4:52 pm

As we near the release of our first dual band home routers, what do you prefer? Should the user be able to choose the band he wants to use (when scanning from his laptop)? Or maybe the end user should not be confused with such options, and let the Device OS decide?

For example MacOS chooses the best band automatically, 2GHz or 5GHz, depending on signal quality and other factors. End user might not know the difference between "gigagertz", so maybe one SSID is easier for home user.

Of course, you will be able to change each SSID (or set them both to same) in Quickset, when you set the password and other things

To clarify, when the laptop is scanning for networks, should he see two SSIDs or one SSID?

paoloaga · Tue Jun 16, 2015 7:10 pm

Isn't it possible to let the user choose?

For example: configuring both radios with the same SSID and wireless profile, and putting them in the same bridge so the device will choose its best option, or configure them with different profiles maybe in separate networks to offer different kind of services...

[EDIT] I didn't realize that Normis already wrote that it's possible to customize the setup. My post is useless

Quindor · Tue Jun 16, 2015 7:11 pm

Best to have Quickset set one SSID because that works easiest. "Power" users can build it however they want anyway.

Tue Jun 16, 2015 7:32 pm

Please do not stick these configuration possibilities to quickset only. Let the administrator freely setup every possible thing how he wants. For home Ap mode in quickset the same ssid and password would be more practical for home users.

0ldman · Tue Jun 16, 2015 9:55 pm

I've done both. Both have merit, but for techies the different SSID is preferred.

CyberTod · Tue Jun 16, 2015 10:13 pm

This is just a poll for how they tune the default configuration. Of course you can do whatever you want after that.
I'm not using QuickSet at all, but maybe for someone who buys a device like this for the first time will be better to see 2 ssids. Otherwise .. hey I bought a dual ap, why I have only one

baggar11 · Wed Jun 17, 2015 12:11 am

Would this be more along the lines of band steering to some effect?

Wed Jun 17, 2015 7:06 am

I don't expect that the band steering will be implemented. I guess it will be just device with two independent radios, nothing that we cannot have now if we add more cards to one board. I hope that at least both radios will be dual band to be able to switch them to whatever combination we need and at least one of them will be 3x3 mimo ac. I am really looking forward such device.

Wed Jun 17, 2015 8:52 am

NOTHING is quickset only

Of course you can go into Wireless settings and change SSIDs as usual, per interface. Question is about Default

MadEngineer · Wed Jun 17, 2015 1:30 pm

I'd like to see band steering done in the device through some sort of access list rules. This would allow you to set the steering based on signal strength etc

Wed Jun 17, 2015 1:32 pm

I'd like to see band steering done in the device through some sort of access list rules.

Just make one access list rule per AP, to kick off the client if he is below certain signal. Client will automatically reconnect to strongest AP

MadEngineer · Wed Jun 17, 2015 1:50 pm

That's the idea, but you may not want to blindly kick them off if the signal on the other frequency is worse again.

The AP needs to know if a connecting device is dual-band. This could already be done by with a script that builds a list of MAC address of connecting devices that if at any stage they register to the 5ghz radio add them to a list, then perhaps exclude that list from connecting to the 2.4ghz radio when their signal strength is ABOVE a certain level because if they have a good signal, then the 5ghz radio should be OK. If the signal is a bit weak, then don't limit the connectivity options as 2.4ghz may provide better range. Sure, deny authentication with a very poor signal but perhaps don't also deny forwarding.

The problem with this is if you have a lot of clients - how big will that database of MAC addresses get?

Wed Jun 17, 2015 3:26 pm

I thought that there is already protocol that instruct the client to use 5g if it is capable of it and connects via 2.4g. This could be implemented in ros. But finally the client decides where to connect on its own. Ap can just do not allow client to connect or kick it out. So there are not so many options...

lcm · Wed Jun 17, 2015 7:52 pm

Same ssid.

Enviado de meu Nexus 6 usando Tapatalk

KillerOPS · Wed Jun 17, 2015 10:08 pm

I would like to have 2 ssid-s, because I can easily connect directly to the band I need (as a user). I think it removes the confusion during telephone support sessions (which is where a "default" configuration should help - which network is your laptop connected to? - Mikrotik-2.4G! - try to connect to Mikrotik5G - Works? -yes - you have interference, stick to 5G).
In a same ssid scenario, you don't have the possibility to do that, because you don't know where the laptop/phone is connected.
Another scenario would be to distribute load across radios - tv in 5G, phone in 2G, laptop in 5G etc. With same ssid - you need some advanced knowledge to be able to tell the difference between bands if you have the same SSID.
Of course everybody is free to use whatever setting suits one, but if a user is aware that he needs a different configuration on the router, that already means he knows how to probably change the settings to suit its needs, or at least knows how to use google to find that out.

networkfudge · Wed Jun 17, 2015 11:45 pm

Some multi-band user devices (such as android phones) don't readily show you what spectrum the discovered SSID(s) are on. By default I think it should be different SSIDs, it covers more bases and minimizes confusion to some people that way. Then if user wants of course she should be able to change and make both the same.

MadEngineer · Thu Jun 18, 2015 2:24 am

perhaps as a default and based on above comments, present the two bands as two radios in the quick set, but provide a tick box for band steering that puts them on the one ssid with whatever steering method applied.

Thu Jun 18, 2015 7:44 am

Band steering is not implemented in ros. Ssid unification does not make it. The discussion is about default value in quickset. Everyone can change it....

Valerio5000 · Thu Jun 18, 2015 12:52 pm

Consideration, but take advantage of these products for the home to upgrade the quick page and make sure that from here you can for example open and close the TCP / UDP ports of the firewall in an easy or a little wizard (type router tp-link ) to set up the Internet connection in no time even if you are inexperienced RouterOS?

A lot of friends have given the RB951 if they are perfect, but if they have to open the doors for example for eMule or torrent or ftp call me. If the mode of use is set to "home AP" the quick page these shortcuts easy to use.

Would not it be convenient?

However the question agree to an SSD only

Thu Jun 18, 2015 1:02 pm

Many home users don't understand "Gigahertz", this is why the question is asked.

avenn · Thu Jun 18, 2015 2:55 pm

I use 2 x ssid "Fast WiFi" for 2.4 and "Superfast WiFi" for 5 Ghz. Easy to understand and encourages users on to the 5 ghz which generally performs better.

"Psychological Band Steering". Works very well so have two SSIDs called fast a
and Superfast perhaps?

Thu Jun 18, 2015 3:39 pm

Good idea, Avenn

vortex · Thu Jun 18, 2015 4:46 pm

I use 2 different SSIDs with different passwords and any device supporting 5GHz is configured to connect only there.

lelmus · Thu Jun 18, 2015 7:25 pm

I'd prefer separate for the reasons of separating slow devices from fast devices. As you know, slow devices can slow down the whole SSID for everyone.

darkprocess · Thu Jun 18, 2015 7:36 pm

Let the admin choose, some boxes offers this ability.

RouteRite · Thu Jun 18, 2015 7:40 pm

Not that it matters greatly, but I think Comcast in the US uses two SSID's. I don't use Comcast, but I can see my neighbor's two SSID's show up. I think it would make troubleshooting simpler to use two SSIDs. I've had problems with some Macs grabbing the 5ghz signal even though it was the weaker of the two bands. If I had two SSIDs, I could at least force the client to choose the frequency that I know is stronger.

nemke · Thu Jun 18, 2015 10:58 pm

Two SSID-s...
When user buy it to see that is dual band device (out of box and on first turn on). After that, enyone can change settings by his need.
I use 5Ghz for Streaming (DLNA, IP cam...)and 2,4 Ghz for Web surf...So my SSID-s on end-user devices are called "Streaming Band" (5GHz) and "Surf Band" (2,4Ghz)

All work like charm

Fri Jun 19, 2015 10:41 am

Let the admin choose, some boxes offers this ability.

Of course you can change this in Quickset. Question is about default (out of the box)

Fri Jun 19, 2015 3:17 pm

I would prefer blank configuration out of the box without any defaults.

Fri Jun 19, 2015 3:25 pm

I would prefer blank configuration out of the box without any defaults.

Flashfig is for you then

vortex · Fri Jun 19, 2015 3:59 pm

Airport by default is the same and one can click on the advanced wireless options button and change the 5GHz band.

Fri Jun 19, 2015 4:00 pm

I know that. Hope also that it will be possible to totally remove quickset as separate package one day.

Fri Jun 19, 2015 4:15 pm

I know that. Hope also that it will be possible to totally remove quickset as separate package one day.

Everybody knows you are smart and technical, but most home wireless devices are used by novices, who don't even understand the meaning of "WiFi password" and "Automatic IP address". Without Quickset, these people would not be able to secure their device.

payday · Fri Jun 19, 2015 8:30 pm

I'd prefer separate for the reasons of separating slow devices from fast devices. As you know, slow devices can slow down the whole SSID for everyone.

Slow devices usually support only 2.4GHz band so they don't see 5GHz at all and they try to connect to 2.4GHz only. Newer devices that support both bands usually try to connect first with 5GHz (if it is available). I guess that setting one SSID for both bands is better for default configuration and it makes it easier for quick setup (and quick connect) on first use. Then if somebody understands and wants to isolate bands with different SSIDs it is also easy.

shipilev · Fri Jun 19, 2015 9:23 pm

Different SSIDs. "Mikrotik-2.4G" and "Mikrotik-5G" should be fine. Or, if we are talking about newer devices, may we assume it is "Mikrotik-N" and "Mikrotik-AC"? These are much more sound to a non-technical persons' mind.

P.S. Whatever the default is, get these dual-band routers to the market already!

lelmus · Fri Jun 19, 2015 11:10 pm

Two SSID-s...
When user buy it to see that is dual band device (out of box and on first turn on). After that, enyone can change settings by his need.
I use 5Ghz for Streaming (DLNA, IP cam...)and 2,4 Ghz for Web surf...So my SSID-s on end-user devices are called "Streaming Band" (5GHz) and "Surf Band" (2,4Ghz)
All work like charm

nemke, that's an excellent example of slow devices staying away from a high speed traffic band. We should control that, and should be default since mikrotik is for advanced people. I also judge a slow device with a slow cpu that needs lots of attention to complete one transmission, so I'm not thrilled of your choice of the ip cam on the high speed traffic band.

Sat Jun 20, 2015 1:32 pm

I know that. Hope also that it will be possible to totally remove quickset as separate package one day.
Everybody knows you are smart and technical, but most home wireless devices are used by novices, who don't even understand the meaning of "WiFi password" and "Automatic IP address". Without Quickset, these people would not be able to secure their device.

Thats why I told you that this is not the right forum to ask such questions. These novices are not here. If yes, they do not understand your question, because if they do understand they are not such novices and they do not care about the defaults so much.

You are just asking experienced users to give you hint what newbies wanting to use your devices for the first time could appreciate, especially if they do not know what the "SSID" means. It is quite paradox, I would say, even I admint you probably do not have better way how to get some opinion. Anyway, you got all opinions you could. Everyone thinks differently and wants different defaults.

purana · Sun Jun 21, 2015 3:00 pm

To clarify, when the laptop is scanning for networks, should he see two SSIDs or one SSID?

I prefer to have each on a seperate SSID. It allows me to select which network I want to use. So if I know my device is 5Ghz capable, I will select the SSID which is the 5Ghz network, and like wise for older devices.

Can't wait to see more dual band units from you guys. Would love to see some dual band desktop based AP units.

sputniki · Tue Jun 23, 2015 4:56 pm

The question was related to CAPsMan only installations before but now it will become important for everyone:

Bandsteering with ACL? Ok, you might disconnect WiFi-Clients from one AP and hope, that the next AP is near enough to keep better rates. But what if a fast 802.1n/ac clients occupy the 2.4GHz-WiFi instead to be forced to use the 5Ghz to fasten their transmission and not being muted by slow legacy devices?

You need to think about active intelligence to play with the cool kids (Aruba & Co.) which do much more with their controllers than only single-configuration-instance.
http://www.arubanetworks.com/techdocs/A ... eering.htm
https://www.lancom-systems.de/download/ ... ing-EN.pdf
https://documentation.meraki.com/MR/Rad ... g_Overview

Until this is possible in ROS there is no other choice than using two separate SSIDs for each band or to hope for intelligent devices hopping from one band to the other, after massive retransmissions.
It would be nice to have Band Steering features (single APs) or load controlled AP balancing (CAPsMan)

Tue Jun 23, 2015 6:22 pm

My notebook ac card drivers offer to select band preferences. Then it correctly selects 5g band even both APs have the same ssid. I suggest to all who want some complicated logic to check what your client devices are capable of. Maybe you will be surprised.

JasonZZR · Thu Jun 25, 2015 12:15 pm

How about multiple SSID's per Band
Rate Limiting for Guests and VLAN Segregation Based on SSID
Client Isolation Per SSID configurable
Allowable type IP/UDP Traffic per SSID perhaps to eliminate torrents etc in a basic manner )
Per User Statistics ( Short Term Long Term Logging perhaps) so even if the User is Offline the Stats stay available for review
Simple Per User Data Capping ( perhaps based on SSID or MAC etc per session / day / month without necessarily requiring backend router / application manager

As discussed in other posts a simple to more sophisticated method of Auto handoff to other CAPSman Access Points
( manage via MAC/ IP , Signal Strength SNR and AP's used/ available capacity ( ie Load Balance between APs if Required)

I Realise the above can be achieved with Winbox .. however if there is a way of Combining the relative common setting elements in a Wireless AP Related Window that would be great

* Some Nice Documented How to Scenarios would be great if you add new features

Also there are very definitely a range of users who will go to great lengths to get the Best Performance form their wireless AP's with the Proliferation of Devices in a households as wishing to get multiple HD Video Streams ( Netflix) Gaming Nvidia Streaming , DLNA etc etc . They are quite willing to Tweak settings etc to get a result if you get all the relaxant wireless AP Settings on a "Simple Page with an Advanced option available for intermediate users .
For instance in Winbox there is a Quickset Tab ... maybe an Advance AP Tab within the Quickset Window? Then if thats not enough they can go nuts elsewhere in winbox ...

Great work by the way on all the winbox improvements .

Just some thoughts

Cheers Jason

IntrusDave · Fri Jun 26, 2015 7:16 am

Personally, I prefer separate SSIDs, allowing the OS to pick based on preference and quality.

IntrusDave · Fri Jun 26, 2015 7:22 am

I use 2 x ssid "Fast WiFi" for 2.4 and "Superfast WiFi" for 5 Ghz. Easy to understand and encourages users on to the 5 ghz which generally performs better.

"Psychological Band Steering". Works very well so have two SSIDs called fast a
and Superfast perhaps?

On that note, I do have one client where I setup the SSID's as "Long Range 2GHz" and "High Speed 5GHz". It helps the users understand why I tell them to switch networks.

andreacoppini · Sat Jun 27, 2015 11:43 am

Just make one access list rule per AP, to kick off the client if he is below certain signal. Client will automatically reconnect to strongest AP

That will piss off iOS. If an iDevice gets de-auth'd too often it will refuse to reconnect to the SSID until you disable/enable the device's WiFi radio.

Band Steering is not about kicking them out, it's about not allowing them to join the 2.4Ghz radio unless they insist.

robertpenz · Sat Jun 27, 2015 6:48 pm

Please make it possible to push certain clients from 2,4 to 5ghz if the same SSID is configured (which should the default mode on shipping). Some devices stay on 2,4 even if they support 5, and the air time in the 2,4 space is valuable.

joegoldman · Sun Jun 28, 2015 7:48 am

Please make it possible to push certain clients from 2,4 to 5ghz if the same SSID is configured (which should the default mode on shipping). Some devices stay on 2,4 even if they support 5, and the air time in the 2,4 space is valuable.

This isn't really controlled by the AP - as the AP isn't always aware of client capabilities.

Maggiore81 · Sun Jun 28, 2015 8:15 am

IMHO an home router with 5Ghz radios, should be fixed to use the indoor band ONLY of the spectrum. We don't need a 5ghz home router transmitting at 1W EIRP in 5.4 band... We should use it only into the indoor band 5150-5350 max 200mw EIRP.

Sun Jun 28, 2015 8:37 am

Are you saying that using regulatory domain with indoor / outdoor setting doesn't ensure that? How it is related to the topic?

kometchtech · Mon Jul 06, 2015 12:00 pm

I think it had separated the SSID so users are connected to both the easy-to-understand explicitly.
(Similar to, for example, Mikrotk2G and Mikrotik5G)

JamesB · Sat Aug 15, 2015 6:43 am

You should use the same SSID.

Because otherwise, when they set up a Guest Network, they will now have 4.
An end user who is less technical should get the name they want when they type it.
They shouldn't have to understand anything about bands.

Of course, you could make it an option, but *please* make it Just Work by default.
Please make UPnP and IPv6 enabled by default too. Then games will Just Work, and if there is IPv6, it will Just Work too.
Then nobody will *need* to do any configuration out of the box except a WiFi name and password.

Many people will just get frustrated if they have to go into confguration for any normal task (like games), and they will blame the router. I program embedded firmware for a living, but I don't do networking, and I will admit it took me a good hour to get the Mikrotik working how I wanted. A TP-Link router I could have had working in 2 minutes, only because of its defaults. If it takes me an hour my mother will buy something else.

syntxerr · Tue Sep 22, 2015 4:59 am

Just wondering if there is a target market date for this yet, Ive been holding out for a while for personal use. Ive had to use UBNT for a few projects that just needed to get done

Tue Sep 22, 2015 7:16 am

Just wondering if there is a target market date for this yet, Ive been holding out for a while for personal use. Ive had to use UBNT for a few projects that just needed to get done

an indoor home AP?

syntxerr · Wed Sep 23, 2015 7:34 am

Dual band 'consumer' unit, home or SMB use. I saw on someone's twitter though that these are awaiting certification - can't wait!

f1studio · Tue Sep 29, 2015 8:24 pm

I think it must have same SSIDs by default with ability to be changed by the user if they want to set up different SSIDs

abis · Fri Oct 06, 2017 6:36 pm

I know that. Hope also that it will be possible to totally remove quickset as separate package one day.
Everybody knows you are smart and technical, but most home wireless devices are used by novices, who don't even understand the meaning of "WiFi password" and "Automatic IP address". Without Quickset, these people would not be able to secure their device.

Yes, we understand novices users too, but MikroTik coders need to think on experimental users too, so from my opinion, out of box can come with Quickset but also can be an option to can remove it too if an experimental user prefer to work as "old school"

In conclusion I will love if Quickset will be as a package

JimmyNyholm · Fri Oct 06, 2017 10:22 pm

That Depends. If features such as Bandstearing or BandBalancing and ChannelFly and other stuff is implemented to overcome bad clients with bad roaming in crowed space then I would say Same SSID.

Without the mentioned features I would vote for Specific SSIDs for 2 and 5 Ghz. and at the same time vote for all the above features from other enterprise wifi solutions.

macsrwe · Fri Oct 06, 2017 10:57 pm

Yes, we understand novices users too, but MikroTik coders need to think on experimental users too, so from my opinion, out of box can come with Quickset but also can be an option to can remove it too if an experimental user prefer to work as "old school" In conclusion I will love if Quickset will be as a package

I don't understand your issue. The presence of Quickset in no way forces you to use it at all. Quickset has been on every router I have bought since it was introduced. Other than opening it up once to see what sort of things it did, I have never actually used it for anything, and it has never gotten in the way of letting me do what I wanted to do using Winbox, CLI, scripting, etc. I cant imagine what possible benefit you imagine to having it made a removable package.

abis · Mon Oct 09, 2017 9:07 am

Yes, we understand novices users too, but MikroTik coders need to think on experimental users too, so from my opinion, out of box can come with Quickset but also can be an option to can remove it too if an experimental user prefer to work as "old school" In conclusion I will love if Quickset will be as a package
I don't understand your issue. The presence of Quickset in no way forces you to use it at all. Quickset has been on every router I have bought since it was introduced. Other than opening it up once to see what sort of things it did, I have never actually used it for anything, and it has never gotten in the way of letting me do what I wanted to do using Winbox, CLI, scripting, etc. I cant imagine what possible benefit you imagine to having it made a removable package.

I didn't say I have an issue, I never mention that on my post. Is just my opinion and I'm not alone who support my point...

varcus · Thu Nov 23, 2017 11:39 am

I guess until MT is a product for everyone, there will be no package "quick set". There is no logic in limiting the client range. As said before, the average user is a novice.

ivanfm · Wed Jan 03, 2018 5:37 pm

Standard users does not understand 2.4G and 5G, but they can understand that network XX-2.4G are better in some places of the house than the XX-5G. When I had used same ssid for two networks was very difficult to troubleshot remotely. Using different ssid make easier even for non technical users to detect problems and interference without using specific tools and programs.

I prefer the default as two different ssids, can be -2.4 -5, -FAST -FASTER, -LongRange -SmallRange, -A -B, -X -Y, anything that permit the user to differentiate the two possible networks.

macsrwe · Thu Jan 04, 2018 2:09 am

The beauty of RouterOS is that you can give each interface two SSIDs -- an identical one shared by the 2.4 and 5G interfaces, and a unique one for each interface (e.g., Network2, Network 5, and Network). That way, the end user can decide whether he wants ignorant-bliss convenience or total control over his choice of channel.

We use this approach when provisioning large RV parks with multiple APs. The transients only have to know that if they attach to the common ID, it will "just work" anywhere in the park. The residents take the time to determine which AP gives them the best performance, and then use the specific SSID for that AP.

DanielJB · Thu Apr 12, 2018 9:44 am

Owing to the lack of RouterOS band steering, I have consistently found the optimal solution is for the 2.4GHz radio to have SSID eg "Mikrotik" and the 5GHz radio to have SSIDs eg "Mikrotik" and "Mikrotik 5G", catering both for people who want simplicity and those who want 5GHz only. Making this default would be a step forward.

anav · Mon Apr 16, 2018 5:22 am

I am the perfect candidate. I should be a beta tester for mikrotik LOL. New to mikrotik learning to program the hex and wanting to add a touch of security to my home scenario. I have a mix of android boxes, nintendo, appleTV, multiple brand Wifi routers acting as AP/switches, need for guest wifi, Nest smoke alarm, Samsung Smart things hub with remote pucks (whatever one calls them), skybell hd doorbell video, Arlo Hub with vidcams, a Solar Cell reporting device, a septic panel, and multiple printers all spread out. (almost forgot a bunch of NAS boxes, and a VOIP modem).

Some of these devices only are able to use B/G/N so AC or A only does one no good.
Thus I will need VLAN capable devices with multiple SSIDs.
Whether the UNIT comes defaulted one way or another matters little to me as long as there is granularity to program the wifi as it is needed.
In other words, i want to be able to direct the wifi, not necessarily have it all decided automatically by the unit.

<b>Further, to be able to program the wifi EVEN IF NOT USING THE ROUTING functionality. Still VLAN capable (aka like a managed switch) and still multi SSID capable. </b>

Finally, use a different wifi then whats on the hap AC2 ;-P
Note: I plan on replacing all my mixed bag of wifi routers acting as APs with the hap AC2 when issues are resolved.

Would you like the default SSID be the same for 2GHz and 5GHz, or different for each band?

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